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Why join a club?

Old 10-03-2006, 05:51 PM
  #176  
AEAJR
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rathware,

I simply explained their thinking, especially as the owner of the land. If you don't like their thinking, that is your right. I tend to agree with you.

If you don't understand the logic of my comments, then you must not understand the issues. Let me see if I can help.

As far as off field flyers, the fact that YOU might be diligent in your flying provides no comfort to anyone but you. No one knows what you are doing, only that it is not in cooperation with anyone but yourself. An you can not know about other off field flyers who might be on your channel. They have also chosen to operate outside the cooperative structure of the club. So they are a threat to your safety, the safety of your plane, just as you are a threat to them. Sorry but that is how it is.

As far as the 4 guys right to shut down a field, I agree, they likely have no right, power or authority to shut down a field. No one said they did. The local governmental authorities, on the other hand, do have that right and authority according to whatever local ordnances exist. Sounds like the local authorities are doing their job.

While you may have the right to the quiet enjoyment of your property you do not have the right to do whatever you like upon it. That varies from location to location but it is generally true.

For example, most cities do not allow the discharge of fire arms on your property, even if you are REALLY careful about it. Most will not allow you to put up buildings over certain heights or cover more than some % of the land. These are just examples.

When you operate an RC plane, you my keep your plane over your property, but your radio waves extend far beyond your property. Now, if you could shield them in some way, then there would be no problem. But your actions can and do have an impact on others, whether you recognize it or not. As such, certain safety procedures, insurance requirements and the like are normally required by local governments in relation to how people operate RC model airplanes.

If you are an off field flyer, I hope you are aware of a major breakthrough in this area. The Spektrum DX6 which operates on 2.4 GHz and was designed to work cooperatively with other 2.4 GHz devices. Hitec and others should be releasing theirs soon. If you are using one of these, then the whole discussion about radio interference and shoot down goes away and I applaud you for buying this advanced system. However users of 2.4 GHz radios are still the exception and not the rule.

Unfortunately our 72 MHz and 27 MHz airplane systems do not have this capability. Most likely 2.4 GHz will replace them over time, just for this reason. But, until they do, radio frequency/channel control is our only way to provide any level of safety. In order for that to work, flyers must be able to see and know about each other and agree to cooperate. Sorry, but that is they way it is.

You don't have to agree with anything I said. I just explained the thinking of people and their reasons. If you don't care, that is your right and I respect your right not to care. I just wish you would care, but I can't force you to.

BTW, gorilla flyers was not my term. I prefer the expression "off field flyers" indicating people who are operating outside the safety and frequency control cooperative structure of a club field, whether it is an AMA field or any other approved field. There are certainly flying fields that are not AMA clubs. I have flown on them myself. There is certainly no one to one relationship there.

You could establish a flying field of your own. I encourage you to do it. If you do, even if you choose not to join the AMA family, you might benefit from looking at the AMA guidelines as to field location and safety guidelines. They might be helpful.

If you don't like these 4 guys, don't join their club. I only sought to provide some insight into their thinking. You don't have to agree with their thinking, nor do I.

Finally, go back and read my post again. I made no statements about loaners who can not get along with others. So I don't know to what you refer.

Last point. You make reference to the "Big Plane AMA". I am not familar with this organization. I am a member of the AMA. I fly gliders and small electric planes. In fact our AMA chartered club does not allow powered planes over 60" wing span. If it is bigger than 60, it has to be a glider. Now some of the gliders get pretty big, but I am not sure that has anything to do with your comments.

Clubs, AMA chartered or not, have the right to choose any type of structure they like. Free flight only, control line only, electric only, glider only, warbirds only, whatever. The AMA does not place a mandate on this, only that they encourage clubs to be open to new members and give consideration to other types of planes, as is appropriate to their field and the wishes of their members.

Last edited by AEAJR; 10-03-2006 at 05:59 PM. Reason: Fix typos and add comments
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Old 10-03-2006, 05:57 PM
  #177  
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I fly at least five miles away from the two club fields in my area, but if the members ever tried to shut down my school-yard flying I would be tempted to fly a little closer...
This type of threat can get you into a lot of trouble. I have known of people coming near a flying field, and turning on a transmitter to shoot down the plane of someone they didn't like. It backfired however, as they were aprehended by the police, went to court, paid a big fine, plus had to compensate the other flyer for his lost plane. I guess there are laws on the books to cover this situation.

Ours is a hobby sport by definition. In my opinion the Sport part demands that I participate in a Sportsmanlike manner. And fling close to a known field with the intent of causing someone problems is not sportsmanlike, but borderline criminal.

More and more of the Schools in this area are running people off when they fly on school property. I've heard of the police passing out tickets for being a public nuisance to people flying at a local soccer field. Schools that do allow it are doing so only to established groups with AMA coverage. I'm afraid that this maverick flying is creating a lot of negative attention overall, and soon we all will have to put up with more regulation.
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Old 10-03-2006, 09:59 PM
  #178  
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Default Re: My negative experiences...

Ooops! I didn't mean to start such a firestorm!

I have to agree with responsibilities of people who fly RC airplanes to the public and their fellow fliers. It is very much the same with full-scale, piloted aircraft (where most of my experience lies). The very freedom that flight allows carries with it responsibilities.

The control, safety, camaraderie, etc. that can be had in a group of people who share your joy & passion obviously can't be found singularly. I agree. The local hobby shop that I frequent always has at least three or four people just 'hanging out' talking about flying, aircraft, history, etc, and I enjoy their company when I am there. So, even though it is a 40-minute drive away, I will likely find myself in their company when ready to start flying again (my Antoinette is about 40% complete!).

As far as the politics that seem to be the thing that drives most people away from clubs - any kind of club - it comes down to this: In a democracy you get what you deserve. For those who were willing to tolerate the berating, intimidation and domineering nature of the 'Big Four' I described (or people like them) that other posters have accepted as 'part of the territory,' well...then you get what you deserve. I think that if people are truly concerned about all of the safety, control and public perception concerns of the hobby (as they say they are), then they also have a responsibility to confront the very issues that cause discontent, discomfort and divisiveness in a club - any kind of club. And that means confronting bullies and those who seek to dominate the group for their own unhealthy reasons. Most bullies and big fish in small ponds are paper tigers and rarely stand up to direct confrontation. In any group (or government, for that matter) it is the responsibility of its members to set the standards for behavior. If we do not act on our convictions then chaos and irresponsible leadership will reign.

Aeajr, I just wanted to say that I don't believe that the leadership of this club of which I spoke was concerned about anyone or anything else but their own local dominance of the hobby in our rural area, certainly as proven by their attitudes. They simply saw themselves - by virtue of their longevity, if nothing else - as the local FAA of model aircraft. THAT is why they went out of their way to shut down local flying fields. Having learned to fly Old Timers with single-channel, tuned reed systems might garner a little respect, but it gives no one any right to dominate another.

That all said, I would LOVE to hear more about the Spectrum radio systems, as I cannot always guarantee that I will fly in a controlled environment. I would hate to think that by turning my radio 'On' that I am putting at risk someone else's Pride & Joy. That would make me sick!

Given that electric flight lends itself literally to 'back yard and park flying' (as advertised), maybe someone knowledgeable in the area can start a new thread on protecting your (and others) investments and creations by responsible radio choices & use when not flying in a controlled environment?

Thanks all! Now, get out there, confront the bullies and make clubs accessible and fun for everyone!

C

Last edited by Curtis; 10-03-2006 at 10:26 PM.
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Old 10-03-2006, 11:21 PM
  #179  
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I don't think we have a firestorm here.

I think we have a free exchange of ideas. Sometimes that can become passionate but I think we are still at a pretty civil level.

Hopefully we will all come to understand each other's point of view a little better. Hopefully we will all be a little more mindful of the other guy and the consequences of our actions.

You asked about the DX6 and 2.4 GHz radio systems. Here is the information. I often recommend this radio to new flyers who are focused on parkflyers and it is my main radio recommendation to people who expect to be flying "off field".

DX6- The Perfect Parkflyer Radio
http://www.wattflyer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2077

With this technology you can never be accused of shooting anyone down and need not be concerned about being shot down by another flyer. Goes a long way toward safety!

It is a good radio at a good price.

Spektrum DX 6 - $199
http://www.horizonhobby.com/Shop/ByCategory/Product/Default.aspx?ProdID=SPM2460
Review
http://www.rcuniverse.com/magazine/article_display.cfm?article_id=623
If your main pursuit is electric planes, parkflyers, hand launched gliders
and other smaller aircraft, under 60 inch wing span , this might be your
best choice. Practical field reports, as documented in the threads below
are that this radio/receiver has a useful range of about 1500-2000 feet,
which is more then enough for these plane and further than most people
will fly them. Never worry about channel conflict again. This promises
to be the RC technology of the future.

Digital DSMT Spread Spectrum Modulation
10 model memories, dual rates, exponential, 6 channels, 8 standard mixes and
three programmable mixes. No crystals needed and no channel conflict
control needed. Not suitable for glow planes, large electrics or larger
gliders.
May have problems with metal or carbon fiber fuselages.

DX6 Flight experience thread
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=452817&page=2&pp=15
What does the AMA think?
http://www.modelaircraft.org/spreadspec.asp
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Old 10-04-2006, 08:22 AM
  #180  
rahtware
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First let me apologize to AEAJR for my misquote, it was Joe Lang that made the "loners" comment. It amuses me to be on this side of the “loner” discussion as the last time I got flamed was because I made the suggestion that the best "trainer" is another person, not a plane...

As to the legality of "intentionally" shooting down another flyer... Prove I did it! I just said I would be “tempted” to fly a little closer to their field. Anyway, my comment was taken completely out of context.


In 26 years in RC I have been very careful about when, where, what and how I fly.... But, if someone attacks me, I have no problem fighting back. And please don’t throw the “authorities” into the mix. “They” don’t get involved until someone (Fab Four) complains. And we all know that it is a lot easier for a municipality to shut down some 20 year-old flying his E-powered foamy in the city park, than to stand up to an older, power hungry (property owner/tax paying) citizen. As for me being hit, or hitting another Outlaw (my preferred expression), that’s the luck of the draw (and before anyone gets their shorts in a knot, please refer to the first sentence in this paragraph).

On the subject of local ordinances... AJ is right, I can't shoot a firearm on my lot, but the rancher next door shoots year around. Legal AND logical to me as he owns about a thousand acres and I own less then a half an acre. Besides, I thought I covered all this in my "without infringing on the rights of others" statement.

As for my “Big Boys” AMA statement, it’s simple… Why do they stand so strongly with a standard insurance policy for all members (don’t you think it could be potential risk based like most other insurances)? Ask your AMA rep. why a guy flying small indoor rubber-band planes has to pay the same insurance fee (it is a flat-rate part of your AMA membership) as some guy that wants to throw a 45 lb, 6 hp flame throwing monster in the air (or a 250mph jet for that matter)? Isn't that the same line of thought that the "Big Four" used… The many have to subsidize the few just for the privilege of flying?


Anyway, this is all just a tempest in a teapot as the hobby is evolving and I don’t think I, or anyone else posting here, have the strength to fight natural progression… Low powered/noise foamies are becoming more popular due to their low cost and the fact that a guy can fly them almost anywhere. The AMA and “official” clubs are costing more and more to belong to, and so are becoming more exclusive. So the AMA and the “O” clubs will become the haven of those with more expensive “appetites” , and “Outlaw” flying/non AMA clubs (yes with Spectrum type radios) will be where the rest of us end up. My biggest fear in regards to this is that the AMA, like the Big Four, will try to bully the rest of us around…..
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Old 10-04-2006, 01:34 PM
  #181  
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Originally Posted by rahtware View Post
Anyway, this is all just a tempest in a teapot as the hobby is evolving and I don’t think I, or anyone else posting here, have the strength to fight natural progression… Low powered/noise foamies are becoming more popular due to their low cost and the fact that a guy can fly them almost anywhere. The AMA and “official” clubs are costing more and more to belong to, and so are becoming more exclusive. So the AMA and the “O” clubs will become the haven of those with more expensive “appetites” , and “Outlaw” flying/non AMA clubs (yes with Spectrum type radios) will be where the rest of us end up. My biggest fear in regards to this is that the AMA, like the Big Four, will try to bully the rest of us around…..
I don't know what an "O" club is but I tend to be with you on most of this.

I have never seen the AMA try tp bully anyone so I don't think there is much risk there.
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Old 10-04-2006, 05:29 PM
  #182  
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I think one thing that is missining this iteration of the disscussion of AMA clubs and "outlaw or guerrilla" flying is that without the AMA, we probably would not be flying at all. Or we would have three frequencies and have to have a federal ham license to fly. Our dues paid for the ability of the AMA to work with the federal government to block out the present frequencies we have available at this time.

The AMA, through the use of our dues money, is working to not have the federal government restrict our model flying, including electrons,glow fuel, gas and jet-a because of the possibility of our type of models being used as a terrorist weapon. I know we think that is stupid, but look who we are dealing with, the federal government.

By not belonging to the AMA and providing the funds to lobby the feds, we risk losing some or all of what we have presently.

All of our dues money does not go to insurance coverage. I filled out a survey recently from the AMA concerning a dues rate structure that would address the park flyers. They are aware of the difference in the risk of a 250 mph jet and a slow stick and are looking at doing something about it. I think the AMA will do the right thing to be fair to all. They are not the bad guys.
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Old 10-04-2006, 06:10 PM
  #183  
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Rabbitcreekok,

Well said. I believe the insurance component of the dues are around $12. So, if there were a two tier structure which maintained the current coverages that would mean that some people might pay about $4 less and some $4 more. Big deal!

Face it, people don't care about all the AMA does for them until someone takes their privledge to fly. THEN they want to know what the AMA is doing about it, even though they are not members.

They are getting a free ride and they know it.

You and I care carrying them and will continue to carry them since they will not help fund the work. That is the way it is.
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Old 10-04-2006, 06:12 PM
  #184  
rahtware
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Originally Posted by Rabbitcreekok View Post
All of our dues money does not go to insurance coverage. I filled out a survey recently from the AMA concerning a dues rate structure that would address the park flyers. They are aware of the difference in the risk of a 250 mph jet and a slow stick and are looking at doing something about it. I think the AMA will do the right thing to be fair to all. They are not the bad guys.
I understand and mostly agree with what you said... I guess they might be changing for the better.

Back in the 80s when I dropped my membership they didn't want to hear anything about a rate structure and insisted that each member have a magazine subscription (which I had no interest in). It was the same time that they started ignoring the north west. So I decided to ignore them...

As to the "Bully" statement, I didn't mean to say they were, just that they, as all large organizations, could become that. Couldn't you see a potential for the AMA working out a deal with the feds that would require an RC flyer to be a member of, and fly only at AMA strips... in the name of national security???
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Old 10-04-2006, 06:19 PM
  #185  
DickCorby
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It seems that those here that dont want to join anything are not seeing the big picture.

In our area the School Districts, Soccer Clubs, and others with large areas suitable for park flyers, are having the modellers run off their property. They are un educated to what they perceive to be a serious and dangerous practice on their property. And yes, they will call in the authorities, and yes you can get a ticket for being a nuicance, and yes you can go to court and be fined.

If you live in the boonies, and are lucky enough to have a large place to fly, and neighbors that dont mind you flying over their property, great for you. But that is becoming the minority, as the cities spread over the landscape.

The AMA is most likely the best hope for the hobby to be able to go on in the future. Quit Complaining about the "Good Ol' Boys" and start putting forth the effort they have over the years to promote the hobby, or you wont have the hobby when you get to the "Good Ol' Boy" age.
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Old 10-04-2006, 06:24 PM
  #186  
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Originally Posted by rahtware View Post
As to the "Bully" statement, I didn't mean to say they were, just that they, as all large organizations, could become that. Couldn't you see a potential for the AMA working out a deal with the feds that would require an RC flyer to be a member of, and fly only at AMA strips... in the name of national security???
Well if you subscribe to the idea that ALL things are possible, I guess the answer is yes to whatever possibility you suggest.

Do I think it is likely? No. If they had wanted to do that they could have tried it a LONG time ago. It would have failed but they could have tried it.

On the other hand, the feds could say that they require all flyes to have the same pilots license as full scale pilots, pay fees to the federal government and anyone not having such a license be fined or arrested, in the name of national security. While I also see this as highly unlikely, the feds DO have the authority over the air where the AMA does not.

So, the organization that is fighting for your privledge to fly is not getting your support and the group that is empowered to take your privledge away is not under your watchful eye.

What is wrong with this picture?
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Old 10-04-2006, 06:37 PM
  #187  
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Originally Posted by rahtware View Post
It was the same time that they started ignoring the north west.
The northwest? Just kidding. Yes it is possible that something could develop along the lines that you mentioned. But if that is what it takes to keep us flying, then we will have to live with it. I know what you are saying that they would try to get something like an agreement that all flyers have to belong to the AMA to benefit the AMA but I don't think that would happen.

If you belonged to the AMA, you would have the opportunity to vote for the vice president and council member that covers the northwest (if they remember you are there) and have some say in what happens. You and others could lobby the vice president for those changes you would like to see happen.

The AMA does lots of other things. We just formed a new, all electric club here and have worked with Jack Frost, the AMA education director to develop a program in co-operation with the Boys & Girls club here to get youth involved with model aviation.

He suggested a 4 week program, working through the FPG-9(flat plate glider), the Skystreak and the Delta Dart to generate interest in modeling. The Boys & Girls club has two great facilities for indoor flying, so we can do this year around. I don't know if we could have come up with the program on our own without his help.
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Old 10-04-2006, 06:50 PM
  #188  
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Originally Posted by AEAJR View Post
So, the organization that is fighting for your privledge to fly is not getting your support and the group that is empowered to take your privledge away is not under your watchful eye.

What is wrong with this picture?
Hey, no problem... Let's see, 200,000 members, at say $5 each to protect our right to fly.(I would think the job could get for a million a year) and $14 for insurance... OK I'll even round it up to $20 and send in my check today! Oops, I guess they want another $38... And the local AMA club wants $60/year + $100 to join (their field is 30 min. away).....
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Old 10-04-2006, 07:22 PM
  #189  
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But I am a Good Ol' Boy...

Have you, or anyone you personally know been fined? Or are we talking rumor here?? And are you sure the problem is with the property owners, or do you have a "Big Four" in your area???

One of the places I fly, when I am down in the area is within the city limits of a tourist/retirement town... The worst kind of place to try to fly! But even there, when the town received a complaint they, with the input of LOCAL flyers (not the AMA) came up with a safety and noise restriction that allows the flying of true park flyers (no AXI powered Strykers). Has anybody tried that in your area?



Originally Posted by DickCorby View Post
It seems that those here that dont want to join anything are not seeing the big picture.

In our area the School Districts, Soccer Clubs, and others with large areas suitable for park flyers, are having the modellers run off their property. They are un educated to what they perceive to be a serious and dangerous practice on their property. And yes, they will call in the authorities, and yes you can get a ticket for being a nuicance, and yes you can go to court and be fined.

If you live in the boonies, and are lucky enough to have a large place to fly, and neighbors that dont mind you flying over their property, great for you. But that is becoming the minority, as the cities spread over the landscape.

The AMA is most likely the best hope for the hobby to be able to go on in the future. Quit Complaining about the "Good Ol' Boys" and start putting forth the effort they have over the years to promote the hobby, or you wont have the hobby when you get to the "Good Ol' Boy" age.
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Old 10-04-2006, 08:02 PM
  #190  
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As to the Local Flyers that came to your rescue, Were none of them AMA Members? I suspect not!

As a matter of fact YES! there was a fellow flying a little yellow electric cub at the local high school on the empty, unfenced football practice field, and he was stopped by the local police and was issued a citation for tresspass, and being a nuisance. Not sure what he paid in fines, but there is no more flying at the High School, or any other similar area. Yet I can go to any of them and throw Frisbees, play ball, ride a bike, walk my dog with no problem.

I suspect that there is a "Big Four" in every club. Some not as obnoxious as you seem to indicate. And I guess I'm one of them this year, as secretary of our club.

But bear in mind, these are the folks, like me, that spent a fortune over the years to enable the advances that the Newbies take for granted possible. If there were no old timers way back when, Companies like Futaba, JR etc. would have had no market, and therefore no need to create the great equipment you now fly with.

I suggest you try to find a single channel escapement radio system, and spend 2 months building a Falcon 56 (Kit not ARF) using ambroid Glue. Cover it with silkspan and dope. Power it with an unmuffled McCoy 15 glow engine, 2-3 lbs of A and B batteries and a range shorter than your eyebrows. Take it to a cow pasture, be sure and wind up the rubber band to power the escapement, and see how long it takes before you destroy it. Just dont forget "one click for right, two clicks for left". That's where I and a lot of those you disparage started, persevered, and still love the hobby.
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Old 10-04-2006, 08:05 PM
  #191  
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Originally Posted by rahtware View Post
But I am a Good Ol' Boy...

Have you, or anyone you personally know been fined? Or are we talking rumor here?? And are you sure the problem is with the property owners, or do you have a "Big Four" in your area???
I don't know where the Big Four live, but where I live, flying RC anywhere but County or State approved sites is in volation of local laws. The schools all prohibit it.

So, if you put an RC airplane up and don't have the appropriate permits you are breaking the law. Whether a cop chooses to just chase you away or fine you is at his discretion.

The State an County fields will not allow ANYONE to fly without AMA insurance. PERIOD!

AMA is a known entity. They understand AMA and the AMA safety code. They understand AMA clubs and how they are expected to maintain a safe environment.

Like or not, the AMA has become the acceptable body to local governments because they take care of all the things that the govenment people need addressed. Not because they tried to exclude anyone else but because they do a good job and they are trusted.
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Old 10-04-2006, 09:46 PM
  #192  
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AEAJR, I see you live in NY .... That may explain it. Out here, we can still fly 'anywhere' (within reason of course). School yard, parks, street, front yard, at the club field (24 hours a day if you wish) , Knob hill where I like to slope once in awhile, etc. I am sure someone will ruin it for us someday, but right now it is not a problem. Soccer, little league football, dogs, etc. ... now they are the problem :o . Even packing a gun in plain sight isn't a problem either as long as you avoid schools and public , federal buildings .... Have to get a concealed permit to wear weapon out of sight though. Rocketry same thing, except when you go above 400 feet. Then you have to contack FAA for clearences (airport nearby) . We have a 25,000 foot ceiling launch site for big rockets about an hour away too.

I support AMA for reasons above and in my previous post... and it allows me unrestricted flying at the club field. Rarely do I use the parks/schools anymore. Usually not that hard up any more to fly .... For $25 yearly fee and $61 for AMA (me and 3 kids) it's worth it. That's what? Around $7 a month.....
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Old 10-04-2006, 11:03 PM
  #193  
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Yes, it is quite different here

AMA $58 per year
Leisure pass $20 for 3 years
Flying permit - $20 per year
$35 per year for the club

I could go fly in the parks but I would be "removed" quickly.

I slope soar over the beaches in the winter time and they STILL give us trouble, and we are flying gliders. No Motors!

It only takes one accident to change everything!
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Old 10-04-2006, 11:23 PM
  #194  
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Boy do you have it easy.

Club Dues $200
AMA $58
IMAC $25

We pay nearly $2000 monthly lease on the flying field, and the city industrial area is moving in on us more every day. We estimate that within 2 years we lose the field, if we are lucky. We are constantly getting flack about our flying over the industrial buildings on the south (1/4 Mile away). Building on the north (less than 1/4 mile) to begin in the spring.

So being able to get AMA assistance in obtaining a flying field is top priority for our club now. Without their help, we'd be out of a field in the near future.
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Old 10-04-2006, 11:27 PM
  #195  
rahtware
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rclark

Thanks for clearing that up for me, I hadn't caught that NY address for AEAJR.

AEAJR

I now understand your problem (just a little). I guess if I lived in an area like yours I would see things a little different. And, I hope if I show you where I live you might be able to understand my point of view a little better. Here is the view looking across the street from my house (and landing strip) (as in George of the Jungle- "Watch out for that tree....")

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It must be tough living in an area where everything is so controlled. I get upset just driving down to San Francisco! Everyone seems so pushy and in a hurry.

Dick

You do have a few years on me after all... I came in when you hung two colored ribbons on your antenna to denote your channel. Mini servos weighed over an ounce, and NOBODY flew ARFs. (And I was 30 when I started!) I have about 40 RC planes under my belt (about half of them in the rafters in the garage) and still love to build... almost as much as flying.

Please don't assume though, none of the guys that I know that went to the meeting is a member of, or represent the AMA (unless you are talking about the American Motorcycle Association) in any way.

As for all this "guilt trip" about supporting the AMA because of all of the lobbying they do on my behalf, I wrote them and asked how much of the membership fee was used to protect our rights in DC... My intention was to send that amount in each year just to quiet those that hold that against me. But it seems that I can't... Here is the reply that I received...



That number is hard to come up with. The last time AMA did a real hard push and really did lots of lobbying was during the frequency issues which I believe was in the 1970's.
We do not have a lobbyist on staff nor have we ever hired one to my knowledge. We have several good employees that are excellent speakers and have represented AMA to Congress, FAA and FCC, EPA and other various government agencies. So as you can see without actually going back from the beginning of this year and checking to see what events these gentlemen have attended it would be hard for me to give you a true $$$ figure.
Joyce Hager
Acting Executive Director
Bringing Modelers Together



I guess if you agree that they didn't use more than a million last year in order to keep my right-to-flight open then I could send in the $5 that I mentioned in my previous post each year. What do you say?
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Old 10-04-2006, 11:43 PM
  #196  
Curtis
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Default The AMA, the Horse it rode in on AND the pasture it hangs out in...

I think that:

A) Questioning bureaucracies, and their responsiveness to the people they represent is not only a healthy thing to do, but a responsibility of the represented.

b) Insurance is always wise if you can afford it, and cost should always be relative to the risk - balsa & tissue floater vs. jets & large-scale a/c.

C) We should always behave with respect & caution towards other people - fellow flyer's, public, etc, BEFORE our own wants & desires.

D) The main reason people DON'T join clubs is because of the out-of-control attitudes and behaviors of others.

I think we ALL need to look to ourselves in the mirror and ask, 'Am I part of the problem, or part of the solution?' Do I welcome people to the hobby, and greet that first-time flyer with his little foam, two-channel trainer to the field, or do I run him off because he doesn't have his AMA card and hasn't 'joined the club'? Or, do we just snicker at his 'little airplane' and ignore him until he sulks off to his car with his unwelcomed plane and disappointed kids in tow? (I've seen this). When newbies have questions do I educate and instruct in an open, friendly way, or do I lecture him with an opinionated diatribe to make sure he never asks me something that stupid ever again?

One need only look at some of the out-of-control and extreme videos of RC crashes & mishaps on Youtube, etc, to know that someday, somewhere people are gonna put jets and irresponsible teens purposely crashing their Christmas present into someone's school, car or house together, scare the hell out of the public and create some rules & regulations that none of us will probably care for.

Self-regulation is exactly that. How well do people (including all of us) really do that?
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Old 10-05-2006, 12:05 AM
  #197  
rahtware
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Dick

I guess Tacoma is getting as crowded as any other big city. I am truly sorry that you are loosing your field, it is a shame that local governments don't seem to want to back our hobby.

Years ago, I suggested to my club (that was having a hard time finding a flying field) that we start a "kids Club". You know going out to schools and giving demonstrations. My goal was to get the community more involved in the hobby, as the more people involved, the more pressure could be brought to a public funded field... The club would have nothing to do with it! It seems that the core of our club didn't want to share the skies with a bunch of kids...

They did get permission to fly at an old log landing (for logs not planes) site. Not as good as it could have been, but it is private and they have the field all to themselves.

I believe your "field" problem is happening all over the country. Our local club field is now surrounded by grapes (it used to be an open "sheep" field). I mean, right up to the edge of the landing strip! Have you ever seen a $8,000-$15,000 1/4 scale plane "shread" it's way through a bunch of grape stakes because the pilot missed the runway? I saw three go in over a two week period the last year I was a club member.
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Old 10-05-2006, 12:11 AM
  #198  
rahtware
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Curtis

I wish I was as able to express myself as well as you do. You wrote exactly what I have been trying to, in my own awkward way, say.
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Old 10-05-2006, 12:23 AM
  #199  
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Thanks, Larry
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Old 10-07-2006, 04:16 PM
  #200  
Broken Balsa
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Default The best way to learn.

I started flying r/c models in 1961 or 62. In all those years I have only seen one person pick up a transmitter and fly a plane cold turkey and he designed the Lance Air. I still cannot believe he did it. Please listen to the gentlemen who tell you to get help from an instructor. That person with a buddy box will make the hobby enjoyable and most likely a life long love affair. Many people have tried it on thier own only to fail and throw the remains in the trash can or in a back room at home to be forgotten. This is not whats its all about. You would have to live in a very remote area not to have a flying club with in driving distance. These folks are in it usually for the long hawl and like all who love thier hobby cannot wait to pass it on to some one else. Go there, ask questions and you will be supprised at the response you will get. Just like on this forum there will be those there who cannot wait to help you learn the right way and you will enjoy the hobby the rest of your life. I did and I still do...Ron
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