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Guillows SE5 conversion

Old 10-14-2008, 04:22 AM
  #1  
dbcisco
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Default Guillows SE5 conversion

I am putting together a vintage (die crushed parts) Guillow's SE5. Besides the vague and scrambled instructions/plans, I want to convert it to electric powered RC (no ailerons though). Anyone been there-done that. Help and tips needed. I have their DR1, Camel and Bristol still in boxes. I thought I would start with this one first because I have built a rubber powers "easy-built" SE before. The Easy-built crumpled when I tried to coverite it, the guillow's at least will handle the coverite, not sure about the conversion. I was planning on using a GWS 400 w/gearbox and electronics in the Guillows.

I will take pics as I go along, maybe others can learn from my mistakes, this is a definite R&D project.
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Old 10-14-2008, 04:28 AM
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Biplane Murphy
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Hi dbcisco,

Look here for a build on a similar plane going on right now (Camel).....

http://www.wattflyer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=39480

Bill does a lot of this type of building, so I am sure he could help out with a few pointers.
He has an SE5a and a DR1 conversions flying right now too.

Good luck with your project,
Murph.
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Old 10-14-2008, 06:05 AM
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I did one on RCGoofs starting at post #44.
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showt...highlight=se5a

Nice little flyer. Been flying it and the DR1 a good bit lately.
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Old 10-14-2008, 06:34 AM
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barmonkey
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Good to see yet another build thread here! Bring those pics...your post and pics will not only help others, but will help you help yourself!

BTW...a GWS 400 w/gearox? That would be way too heavy and large.....
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Old 10-14-2008, 07:29 AM
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Originally Posted by barmonkey View Post
Good to see yet another build thread here! Bring those pics...your post and pics will not only help others, but will help you help yourself!

BTW...a GWS 400 w/gearox? That would be way too heavy and large.....
I was going to use an IPS but all I have is EPS's. I thought that the set up from my Wattage Camel and J-3 (EPSes) would work since this will be a bit heavier than my PicoMoth (IPS driven). I don't want to go brushless, I have to many brushed motors and ESC laying around looking for homes

I have the EPS set in and it fits nicely in the nose. I read that getting weight in the nose of the balsa models is difficult and that some people had to put lead weight in the nose. I would rather have something more useful than lead. It is easier to keep throttle low than to be underpowered too. (I think)
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Old 10-14-2008, 02:31 PM
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What is the wing span on the SE5A? I have a Sterling SE5A I built years ago and never flew. I been thinking about trying to put brushless and RC into it. It has a 24 inch span.
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Old 10-14-2008, 02:41 PM
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The wingspan is 24" on the Guillows SE5
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Old 10-14-2008, 04:29 PM
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I am planning on using a small brushless motor. I have a couple of tape drive motors that I am going to rewind but not change the magnets. I will try 6 to 8 inch props. I am flying an Eflight Jenny on a 7 inch prop brushless using 2s lipo so I think the SE5a should do ok on about the same setup. The SE5a I don't think will have a tail heavy problem cause it does not have the short nose like the Camel. I will be using pull-pull for controls to save tail weight.
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Old 10-14-2008, 05:22 PM
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I might sugguest the GWS 350, instead of the 400. That is what I use in my Tiger Moths, and I've been real happy. Certainly heavier than the IPS, but much more powerful.

I've seen others call it a 300, so I'm not really sure what the real name is.
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Old 10-14-2008, 09:05 PM
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Here is another thread on this plane. http://www.wattflyer.com/forums/show...t=19016&page=3
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Old 10-16-2008, 03:42 AM
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Originally Posted by 7car7 View Post
I might sugguest the GWS 350, instead of the 400. That is what I use in my Tiger Moths, and I've been real happy. Certainly heavier than the IPS, but much more powerful.

I've seen others call it a 300, so I'm not really sure what the real name is.
The motor in mine is a 370. I am thinking of putting in a 180 though.
The nomenclature for motors about drives me crazy. Just got the Heli motor nonsense down and now airplanes are driving me crazy
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Old 10-16-2008, 05:24 AM
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Originally Posted by dbcisco View Post
The motor in mine is a 370. I am thinking of putting in a 180 though.
The nomenclature for motors about drives me crazy. Just got the Heli motor nonsense down and now airplanes are driving me crazy
If you use any of those motors, you probably will not do well unless they are geared. The small props that they use DD are not well suited to these planes. I have flown planes as large as a GP Hellcat with a geared 180, although not extremely powerful. I had done conversions with the brushed motors in the past, and had some success. My Guillows Spitfire flys well on a geared GWS350. Still, at this point I've been convinced to go with smaller outrunners or geared 12mm bl motors, due to space constraints and ease of mounting. Fitting a strong stick mount in these planes is a lot more work than simply gluing on a thin ply firewall for an outrunner mount.

The other problem is that some of the brushed setups I have in higher wing load conversions are pushed so hard to get the power out of them, that they are generally unreliable.
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Old 10-16-2008, 05:56 AM
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I guess the gearbox (approx. 6:1) with a 180 is more likely to die than the 370. I would to love to throw away all my brushed motors and ESC's and put in brushless. Sadly, I have a box full of brushed motors and ESC's and little in my wallet
I am not really worried about over all weight, what I am worried about is getting the CG right. The gearbox and motor are 1.5 oz. Quite a bit in the nose when I only have electronics and a battery to offset it in the body.
Maybe putting the battery as far in the tail as far as I can.
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Old 10-16-2008, 07:15 PM
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Here is a lot of links to Guillows R/C builds. http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showt...61#post9275360
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Old 10-17-2008, 02:00 AM
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Originally Posted by dbcisco View Post
I guess the gearbox (approx. 6:1) with a 180 is more likely to die than the 370. I would to love to throw away all my brushed motors and ESC's and put in brushless. Sadly, I have a box full of brushed motors and ESC's and little in my wallet
I am not really worried about over all weight, what I am worried about is getting the CG right. The gearbox and motor are 1.5 oz. Quite a bit in the nose when I only have electronics and a battery to offset it in the body.
Maybe putting the battery as far in the tail as far as I can.
I have a bag of brushed ESCs and motors too. Know the feeling.
Those little 180 motors have proven quite tough for me. I had one bashed onto a GWS IPS-A gearbox, and ran it on 3s for many flights in a GP Hellcat with both 2 and 3 blade 9x7 props. I thought it would burn up immediatley. I still have the 180 geared setup in working order after maybe 30 good flights, although I put a bl motor in the Hellcat.
The 370 is simply more weight than you need to set CG, making the plane heavier. The beauty of the SE5A is that it has a long nose, allowing it to balance with less nose weight than other WWI bipes.

If you used a 370 motor, the batt would probably only need to be moved back to under the wing, but I would try to do anything to talk you out of that, and use a 180, if you go brushed. IPS is questionable for power, unless you build really light, which is tough to do with Guillows. I stole a 5866kv Feigao bl IPS size motor from my Guillows DR1 for a micro jet, and it would not fly on a brushed IPS. It now has a 4100kv Feigao IPS which flys fine. The 5866kv was ballistic in it.

The IPS brushed dual is a good underutilzed setup. I had one in a Guillows Zero with A gearing and 9070 3-blader on 3s. Flew with power. Eventually burned a motor, but would have done fine if propped down to 8". I've since replaced the bad motor to use it again someday, as the Zero now has a bl setup.
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Old 10-21-2008, 02:46 PM
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I put a 180 motor in the gearbox and used some RTV to get better support and vibration damping. The gearbox is epoxied in with a couplke degrees down and right offset.
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Old 10-21-2008, 06:05 PM
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180 should do the job. I ended up putting a bit of lead to add noseweight to my SE5A with short can 12mm Feigao, so the 180 should be ample weight, without being too much noseweight. Just some thoughts on the batt/gear access which worked well:
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Old 10-25-2008, 05:56 AM
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Well, I have the servos in and am starting to cover up the fuselage. I am using some fine sheet balsa on the places where the original used wood or metal. I was thinking of using silk for the rest of the fuselage. I will use coverlite on the wings though. I am also considering using depron for the tail feathers because I just need some foam for my psyche. The foam could be easily replaced in the future if I want. After looking at some restored S.E.5's I think it will look pretty close to the original.
I also am simply making cotton padded compartments under the wing opening for the RX, ESC and battery.
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Old 10-25-2008, 06:01 AM
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Originally Posted by dbcisco View Post
Well, I have the servos in and am starting to cover up the fuselage. I am using some fine sheet balsa on the places where the original used wood or metal. I was thinking of using silk for the rest of the fuselage. I will use coverlite on the wings though. I am also considering using depron for the tail feathers because I just need some foam for my psyche. The foam could be easily replaced in the future if I want. After looking at some restored S.E.5's I think it will look pretty close to the original.
I also am simply making cotton padded compartments under the wing opening for the RX, ESC and battery.
You could also put a steerable tailwheel in, as some restored SE5As have. I incorporated mine in with the tailskid with a tiny 3/8" plastic Dubro tailwheel, which is hardly noticable. The taiskid has thin brass tubing inside it, with a steering arm that goes into the rudder. The steerable tailwheel has worked well for ROG takeoff.
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Old 10-25-2008, 06:38 AM
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Originally Posted by Bill G View Post
You could also put a steerable tailwheel in, as some restored SE5As have. I incorporated mine in with the tailskid with a tiny 3/8" plastic Dubro tailwheel, which is hardly noticable. The taiskid has thin brass tubing inside it, with a steering arm that goes into the rudder. The steerable tailwheel has worked well for ROG takeoff.
Do you know what the Dubro part number is, or a picture? If you have ever been to my LHS you would know why I ask
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Old 10-25-2008, 07:06 AM
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Originally Posted by dbcisco View Post
Do you know what the Dubro part number is, or a picture? If you have ever been to my LHS you would know why I ask
Here's a picture of what they are, although I get them from my LHS:
http://www.rcdude.com/servlet/the-69...ro-Tail/Detail

They have 3/8" and 1/2" sizes available in small plastic tailwheels
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Old 11-01-2008, 07:03 AM
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Hey,
Well, I've decided to bite the bullet and build a 3 channel S.E.5.a. rudder/elevator, its an old die-cut kit 24" wing span and I was a bit concerned with the quality but maybe the die's were sharp that day the wood quality appears ok aswell.
I'm planning on using a waypoint W-E2205-36 motor 28 grams 1770kv, waypoint W-EBLESC-15 esc 17grams, APC SF 6x4 prop, 3s 800mah lipo's, spektrum AR6100e receiver, 2x micro servo's.
My main concerns are -covering it?
-Dihedral? scale or the 1" recommended for flight?
-Tail surfaces... as per plan or flat sheet?

Any tips would be great.
Thanks Reuben
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Old 11-01-2008, 07:27 AM
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Originally Posted by reuben199 View Post
Hey,
Well, I've decided to bite the bullet and build a 3 channel S.E.5.a. rudder/elevator, its an old die-cut kit 24" wing span and I was a bit concerned with the quality but maybe the die's were sharp that day the wood quality appears ok aswell.
I'm planning on using a waypoint W-E2205-36 motor 28 grams 1770kv, waypoint W-EBLESC-15 esc 17grams, APC SF 6x4 prop, 3s 800mah lipo's, spektrum AR6100e receiver, 2x micro servo's.
My main concerns are -covering it?
-Dihedral? scale or the 1" recommended for flight?
-Tail surfaces... as per plan or flat sheet?

Any tips would be great.
Thanks Reuben
Somebody's online at this time of night.
I built tail per plan, but I tend to like strong heavy stringer wood, which weighs more than some think. The Guillows perimeter frame wood is often heavy, in addition to being fairly thick, at over 1/16". They seem to use some off size that's a bit over standard 1/16" sheet for those parts. If you can find some really light 1/32" sheet balsa, you can cover with Coverlite or tissue and end up at the same weight.

I gave mine (just walked out to the living room to check it out where it's hanging) a good 1" of dihedral for rud/elev flying. From flight, I would say it could be reduced a bit and still have good stability. If anything, mine may have a bit much, as the dihedral helps induce roll from the rudder yaw, which makes it "swing" a bit excessively on turns.

Weight wise, if you can get everything up front, the slightly heavier ESC and motor will be fine. I used a geared 12mm Feigao, but progressively added lead to enhance stability. I probably have a total of roughly 1-1/2 ounces, between motor/gearbox/lead weight up front. Maybe more. I can get you a CG measurement also when needed.
Battery wise, I cannot fit larger than a TP 3s-730 in the compartment, as I have it. You could go a bit taller, but would have to trim the top fuse keel down, and laminate the sides of that area with stringers to replace strength lost, if I remember the area correctly. As I have the batt mounted, it does not require any rework of the airframe for it's compartment space.
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Old 11-01-2008, 07:49 AM
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Hey Bill,
Its 6pm on this side of the world
I've just started the fuselarge, I'm thinking I will build the one side then make a servo tray and work out a battery compartment before I add the othersides formers. I think I will build the wing and add the 1" dihedral they recommend. -Reuben
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Old 11-03-2008, 09:45 AM
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Hi,
So far I have built the left side fuse and the lower wing (dihedral yet to be added).

I'm looking for tips regarding placement of my gear, I'm thinking either to stand the battery vertically in the compartment in front of the wing.... or lay it flat infront of the wing with the esc mounted above it? and have a full length tray that the servo's will be mounted in to, for servo placement I'm thinking above the lower wing with an access panel in the lower wing, however I have seen some with the servo's in the cockpit area? this is where I would like to put the receiver as it will be easier to see its light (its a spektrum ar6100e) also are light pushrods ok or do I attempt a pull/pull system?

Any pointers and photo's would be greatly appreciated

-Thanks Reuben
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