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Control Throws - what's right? What if it's too little?

Old 09-12-2013, 10:05 PM
  #26  
jackcutrone
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Default UM T28 Control Throws

Originally Posted by Rltkktlr View Post
I know my parkzone T28 manual showed rec throws in mm. I don't have it with me but if anyone wants that info let me know
If you could post them on this thread, it would be greatly appreciated.

Jack Cutrone
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Old 09-12-2013, 10:29 PM
  #27  
Rltkktlr
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Ok these numbers are right out of my Parkzone T28 Trojan manual...
High Rate. Low Rate. All up and down
Aileron. 13mm 9.5mm
Elevator. 16mm. 13mm
Rudder. 22mm L/R. 16mm. L/R
Great flying plane.
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Old 09-12-2013, 11:47 PM
  #28  
fhhuber
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When using distance instead of angle, always measure from the trailing edge of the widest part of the control surface.

When using angle measure it doesn't matter where along the control surface.
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Old 09-12-2013, 11:48 PM
  #29  
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Thanks so much RLTKKYLR
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Old 09-19-2013, 04:34 PM
  #30  
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Originally Posted by fhhuber View Post
If your expo made the elecator super sensitive near center that sounds more like inverse expo (- instead of + for JR or + instead of - for Futaba)

Differnt radios respond differently to expo and some trim is applied before expo, some after.
Trim as explained to me by a JR service tech - only moves the neutral point and will have no effect on changing expo no matter what radio.

Denny - according to him - something else was amiss there - not trim affecting expo.

It's the same as some think that trim is reduced by same percent as D/R - not true. Trim changes surface same amount per click regardless of D/R.... based on 100%. If it didn't - it would mean different settings on high / low rates.

Nigel
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Old 09-19-2013, 10:13 PM
  #31  
kyleservicetech
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Originally Posted by solentlife View Post

Denny - according to him - something else was amiss there - not trim affecting expo.

Nigel
Hi Nigel
Nope, nothing was wrong with the DX7 transmitter and its trim. The problem I had was the model was so far out of trim, I ran out of trim adjustment on the transmitter. And still had to hold considerable up elevator just to fly straight and level.

The problem was caused by the amount of up elevator I had to hold. As a result of the amount of up elevator needed, the transmitter joystick was in the very sensitive region of the exponential program of the joystick.

Had there been enough trim adjustment available, no problem would have existed.

This happened on a Goldberg giant scale model I got brand new for 1/2 of the original cost from the local hobby shop. That model had been sitting there for some five years. After making up the adjustment on the elevator clevis, this model could be controlled with the elevator trim feature. That model was not much fun to fly though. Come in 1/2 MPH to slow, and that danged model would drop like a lead brick, without warning. Finally sold it for $10, and was glad to get it.
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Old 09-19-2013, 10:59 PM
  #32  
solentlife
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OK Denny ... it just appeared to read that expo was affected by / with trim. Later post clears that up ... and lets be honest, if no expo on that model - you still would have had same problem.

Nigel
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Old 09-20-2013, 01:32 AM
  #33  
kyleservicetech
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Originally Posted by solentlife View Post
OK Denny ... it just appeared to read that expo was affected by / with trim. Later post clears that up ... and lets be honest, if no expo on that model - you still would have had same problem.

Nigel
Yup, would have been the same problem. Only instead of an 1/8 inch on the elevator stick moving the elevator 30 degrees, it would have moved the elevator 10 degrees. Because the transmitter elevator joystick was down into the expo region of the programmed setting. To visualize what happened, take the elevator clevis on your model, screw it in or out 10 or 15 turns to give down elevator. Program in 50% expo, and fire up the radio. After you run out of trim on the elevator, try moving the joystick to center the elevator. Then move that joystick slightly up or down. Because the joystick is in the expo range, the elevator now will be super sensitive.

As a result, just touching the elevator joystick slightly on the artificial level flight position of that joystick nearly caused the model to make a loop. Or, a straight down dive.

Last edited by kyleservicetech; 09-20-2013 at 02:09 AM.
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Old 09-22-2013, 07:34 PM
  #34  
solentlife
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Denny - in my book - that would indicate far too sensitive linkage setting ...

OK the out of trim needs sorting ... but also the excessive control setting. I would be inclined to move servo side in a hole and control arm out a hole.

Expo - in my book is not to create a docile machine overall ... that should be done by setting linkage geometry to correct total movement. Expo is then used to give a 'soft centre'... suitable for model.

Too many people use expo to tame an over-control setting model. So when as you did - push stick further than expo - you get excessive control response.

Trim does not move a stick out of Expo ... expo moves centre with the trim. What is the problem is when as you found trim is insufficient to counter out of trim condition. For you to experience stick outside expo there must mean you were holding a LOT of stick !!

Bet it was interesting ...



Nigel
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Old 09-23-2013, 04:22 AM
  #35  
kyleservicetech
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Originally Posted by solentlife View Post
Denny - in my book - that would indicate far too sensitive linkage setting ...

OK the out of trim needs sorting ... but also the excessive control setting. I would be inclined to move servo side in a hole and control arm out a hole.

Expo - in my book is not to create a docile machine overall ... that should be done by setting linkage geometry to correct total movement. Expo is then used to give a 'soft centre'... suitable for model.

Too many people use expo to tame an over-control setting model. So when as you did - push stick further than expo - you get excessive control response.

Trim does not move a stick out of Expo ... expo moves centre with the trim. What is the problem is when as you found trim is insufficient to counter out of trim condition. For you to experience stick outside expo there must mean you were holding a LOT of stick !!

Bet it was interesting ...



Nigel
Hi Nigel
Yeah, I was holding a LOT of elevator stick, once it was figured out what was wrong with that model. It flew well after getting the trim in range. But, that model was a real bear to land. It would fall out of the sky if flown 1/2 MPH to slow on landing. Bent the landing gear to many times, which is why I got rid of it.

Last edited by kyleservicetech; 09-23-2013 at 06:03 PM.
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Old 09-23-2013, 10:08 AM
  #36  
solentlife
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Denny ... that F16 freebie that I rebuilt .. flight later on and the plastic all flying stab pivot snapped one side.

Tried all sorts to try fix but in the end converted to fixed stab and hinged elevators.

Boy did that make a difference to trim ! I was holding about 60% stick + all the trim I had ... so I know very well the situation you recount ! Was I glad to get her down in one piece.

Nigel
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Old 09-23-2013, 06:06 PM
  #37  
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Originally Posted by solentlife View Post
Denny ... that F16 freebie that I rebuilt .. flight later on and the plastic all flying stab pivot snapped one side.

Tried all sorts to try fix but in the end converted to fixed stab and hinged elevators.

Boy did that make a difference to trim ! I was holding about 60% stick + all the trim I had ... so I know very well the situation you recount ! Was I glad to get her down in one piece.

Nigel
Hi Nigel
Yeah
Back in the mid 1980's I had a pair of Craftaire ten foot wingspan sailplanes with all flying stabs. These models were hand launched at first with a winch.

And, you're never really certain if the elevator is correct on the maiden flights. They were, and they had many two hour plus flights on them after going to electric power up front.
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Old 09-23-2013, 06:57 PM
  #38  
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1980's .. all flying stabs !! UGH !! I did a lot of slope soaring and thermal flying then in UK ... all flying stabs seemed to be the order of the day ... but what a pain to get installed without floppy fittings !! Those incredibly thin fins and those stabs sticking out on two thin piano wires ....

Memories ...

I know it has nothing to do with this topic ... but I'm sitting here with beer in hand and listening to the closing acts of "La Boheme"

Nigel
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Old 09-24-2013, 01:33 AM
  #39  
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Originally Posted by solentlife View Post
Those incredibly thin fins and those stabs sticking out on two thin piano wires ....


Nigel
Those Viking models used 1/4 inch diameter tubes front and back for the stabs. Strong as heck. And, absolutely zero slop.
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Old 09-24-2013, 01:38 AM
  #40  
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Easy to get a slop-free flying stab... thin ply reinforcements and properly installed brass bushings.

Used to fly with Jack Caldwell (designer of several slope soarers) His Swift 46 was a wonderful plane.
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Old 09-24-2013, 01:52 AM
  #41  
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Originally Posted by fhhuber View Post
Easy to get a slop-free flying stab... thin ply reinforcements and properly installed brass bushings.

Used to fly with Jack Caldwell (designer of several slope soarers) His Swift 46 was a wonderful plane.
Yup
That's what those Viking sailplanes used. At least, the way I built them up some 30 years ago now.
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Old 09-24-2013, 02:08 AM
  #42  
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maybe I haven't advanced far enough, but I don't like any expo.

I set things up that fly slow with maximum throws, and stuff that's faster on low, then tweak control horns from there.

my slow stick, I've got near 60 deflection rudder, and 75% travel to lower elevator and only 25% for upper elevator.

every pilot will think and feel differently. the recommended throws are to make sure you get in the air, just like the cg.
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Old 09-24-2013, 04:17 AM
  #43  
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I prefer to set up dual expos instead of dual rates.
Same max throw at full stick when I need it. Softer center when at high speed.
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Old 09-24-2013, 05:30 AM
  #44  
kyleservicetech
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Originally Posted by hayofstacks View Post
maybe I haven't advanced far enough, but I don't like any expo.

I set things up that fly slow with maximum throws, and stuff that's faster on low, then tweak control horns from there.

my slow stick, I've got near 60 deflection rudder, and 75% travel to lower elevator and only 25% for upper elevator.

every pilot will think and feel differently. the recommended throws are to make sure you get in the air, just like the cg.
Each person is different. As for me, I like about 35% expo on the elevator and ailerons. This works well for those models with large aileron and elevator surfaces, and a lot of throw.
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Old 09-24-2013, 05:37 AM
  #45  
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"Each person is different. As for me, I like about 35% expo on the elevator and ailerons. This works well for those models with large aileron and elevator surfaces, and a lot of throw."

It really depends on which model I'm flying.....now that I've gotten comfortable with programing the DX6i, sure makes a difference being able to switch from model to model.....I've even been tempted to fire up the old Trex clone 450 and give it a go......naw......been their, done that.....lol!
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