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Epoxy Glue Aggain

Old 11-04-2015, 12:55 AM
  #26  
Abuelo
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I've mixed epoxy on anything that was handy but found that an upside down pop can with the convex base makes the best mixing surface. Easy to see and judge the two quantities and they naturally flow to the center for mixing.

Just my 2.
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Old 11-04-2015, 02:40 AM
  #27  
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Last edited by Turner; 11-04-2015 at 02:36 PM.
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Old 11-04-2015, 04:11 AM
  #28  
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Originally Posted by Turner View Post
I'm not sure I get your meaning. What prevents bubble buildup, etc.?

Holding your breath and working in a vacuum, ect. could help too.........
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Old 11-04-2015, 05:23 AM
  #29  
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Originally Posted by Turner View Post
I'm not sure I get your meaning. What prevents bubble buildup, etc.?
The Bison Epoxy packs I buy ... in the blister pack - they give you :

Mixing stick
Mixing palette
Metered syringes
Glasspaper
End caps

Only modification I make is to cut the joiner between the syringe plungers so I can individually control amounts. If left joined, the thinner catalyst squirts more than the thicker adhesive.

Nigel
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Old 11-04-2015, 07:07 AM
  #30  
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Originally Posted by Abuelo View Post
I've mixed epoxy on anything that was handy but found that an upside down pop can with the convex base makes the best mixing surface. Easy to see and judge the two quantities and they naturally flow to the center for mixing.

Just my 2.
I've been using the bottom of pop cans to mix epoxy for years. Add to the above comments, that aluminum is a bit of a heat sink to reduce the self heating effect of the epoxy before application.

Before retiring, the shop had a black potting material used for potting 20 pound current transformers into an aluminum shell. That potting material had the consistency of tooth paste. But even a tiny needle sized pin hole would allow all of that potting material to run out before it set up.

Seems that potting material depended on self heating during the curing process, and that self heating thinned out the material to the consistency of #10 engine oil.
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Old 11-04-2015, 07:12 AM
  #31  
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Default Yellow Carpenter Glue Alternative to Epoxy

Originally Posted by dereckbc View Post
OK I have been using Robert Shaw 30-minute Epoxy and not happy with it as it is too brittle when dried and cured. It is somewhat pliable at room temps and higher. But today is our first cool day down here in TX. It is a very chilly 58 degrees this morning. I went out to the garage this morning to work on my plane when I made a shocking discovery. A few days ago I mixed up some Epoxy for a model I am working on, and still had the wax paper I used to mix the last batch. So to tidy up I went to throw it away, and as soon as I picked up the paper to wad it up, the glue literally exploded and shattered into a hundred pieces with almost no effort, It is as fragile as very thin glass like glass used to make Xmas tree globes.

So does anyone know where one can find some good pliable epoxy that does not turn to glass in cool weather?
Epoxy really has its places when gluing up critical areas like the motor or engine mounts of our model airplanes. Especially where the glue joint is exposed to glow fuel or gasoline.

But for me in less critical locations, I've been using Titebond or Yellow carpenter glue. This stuff is extremely strong, and is readily sandable.

Just a note with Titebond. If using it with places where the part has to be shoved into another part, like a dowel into balsa, be certain to allow a little bit of oversize.

If not, that Titebond or yellow glue will seize while assembling, requiring the use of a rubber mallet to get it all together.

Voice of experience.
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Old 11-04-2015, 07:18 AM
  #32  
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In early days of Heli's when CF booms were too expensive to replace willy nilly ... Epoxy was the solution.

A CF boom would usually split into fibre lengths but ends usually intact. Items to repair were :

5 min epoxy or longer if really bad !
Insulation tape roll
Hot air heat gun
Straight dowel wrapped in Clingfilm to match internal diameter of boom.

How to :

OK ... remove boom and lay fibres back together as a fair match of original. Put to hand dowel wrapped in film ....
Insert dowel into boom and have film and end easily accessible to withdraw later.
Mix up Epoxy and smear onto the outer boom over the split fibres ...
using Hot Air gun - heat the epoxy to make it run like water and into the fibres. Do not continue as this will speed up the setting of the Epoxy faster.
Now wrap boom in tape creating a round section on the dowel inserted. Spiralled tape overlapped is best.

Leave to cure.

Remove tape ... withdraw dowel and film. With Glasspaper you can now smooth the job ... paint if necessary.

This routine was good for numerous repairs of booms years ago and I kept booms going for ages ..

Of course nowadays - booms are not that expensive so no real call for the procedure. But worth remembering for wing tubes etc. It also works for Fibreglass tubes etc.

Nigel
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Old 11-04-2015, 02:37 PM
  #33  
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Originally Posted by pizzano View Post
Holding your breath and working in a vacuum, ect. could help too.........
Okay, never mind. Seems I misread something.
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Old 11-04-2015, 03:35 PM
  #34  
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Just a note with Titebond. If using it with places where the part has to be shoved into another part, like a dowel into balsa, be certain to allow a little bit of oversize.

If not, that Titebond or yellow glue will seize while assembling, requiring the use of a rubber mallet to get it all together.

Voice of experience.
The old carpenters trick of a groove along the length of the insert to allow the air / excess glue to ooze out and the item go fully home.
Its why furniture dowels are fluted and not smooth.

Nigel
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Old 11-04-2015, 04:27 PM
  #35  
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Originally Posted by solentlife View Post
The old carpenters trick of a groove along the length of the insert to allow the air / excess glue to ooze out and the item go fully home.
Its why furniture dowels are fluted and not smooth.

Nigel
Like most true builders i use tightbond for 95 perecnt of my balsa gluing and only a very small amount of epoxy to save weight . Gorrila foaming glue for foam . joe
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Old 11-04-2015, 04:58 PM
  #36  
dereckbc
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Thank you everyone for your responses. In conclusion some have questioned the brand. I am using Robert Shaw 30-Minute epoxy sold in virtually every Hobby Shop. Everything I have read indicates Robert Shaw epoxy is a quality product. Not to say I might have an old product or something else wrong. But none of the other batches seem to have the problem.

When wax paper was brought up at first seemed like a good answer, but I have never heard of that before. I also make golf clubs and we mix in glass beads in the epoxy to strengthen it. So I was curious and went on line and Googled Wax Paper, Epoxy. What I found leads be to believe wax paper likely had nothing to do with it. If you did the same and Googled like I did you will found Wax Paper is used with epoxy by many craftsmen, especially boat builders and fiberglass folks. Example to patch or make fiberglass, epoxy paint they will smear the epoxy onto a surface to be coated, cover the epoxy with Wax Paper, and then roll the epoxy to get air bubbles out and to spread the epoxy out evenly. Leave the Wax Paper on until dried, and then peeled off. If you want to try a little experiment, mix some epoxy up on wax paper and let it fully cure. The wax paper will peel right off as the epoxy will not bond to it.

My best guess is I had a brain fart when mixing and used too much hardener. Sine that time I have mixed up a couple of test batches on wax paper and allowed it to cure. Could not repeat what I seen before. I did however put one batch to cure in the fridge and confirmed what I have read that epoxy will not cure if it is kept cool, It needs to be at room temps to cure properly. You can also speed up curing time by keeping it warm like on top of a hot water heater or anything that puts out some heat.

THX again everyone.
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Old 11-04-2015, 10:10 PM
  #37  
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What an interesting thread. Hope you're doing well Dereck. What are you doing in Texas? Big change from British Columbia!
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Old 11-04-2015, 10:42 PM
  #38  
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Originally Posted by Rockin Robbins View Post
What an interesting thread. Hope you're doing well Dereck. What are you doing in Texas? Big change from British Columbia!
Hey RR I am doing well. You are one of the folks I know who have watched me progress from a beginner with my Apprentice S about three years ago, to an Extra 300, Visionaire, and now a PA Addiction X.

First three were easy as they are BNF Foamies. The Addiction is my first Balsa ARF and has been challenging to get built to my satisfaction. I have been able to take it up on its maiden a few weeks ago when the Pull-Pull Rudder setup slacked up on the 3rd flight. Fortunately had no trouble getting it down in one piece. In those first 3 flights I must say it is the easiest plane of my 4 to fly.

With my Visionaire I had a lot of difficulty doing Harriers and hang on the prop. The Addiction is super easy and did it on the first try. The dang thing just wants to fly. Landing is a piece of cake. Traditional landing is super slow motion. It flares at a slow walking speed and very easy to control. So easy to control no runway is really needed. On my second flight I just hung it on the prop in front of me and snatch it out of the air.

Easy to take off either on a runway, or just hold it noise up pointing away, go to full power, let go and it takes off like a rocket. No need for a toss.

TX is a good place to fly year round. Right now Fall has not really arrived yet. GGrass is still green and treees are still green and full of leaves. Only my Ball Cypress tree has started to change. No frost or freeze in the 10 day forecast. That usually happens around Turkey day, and cold freezing weather is rare. Typical winter day here is mid 50's, and by the end of February it starts warming up. I garden and usually set out tomatoes around mid March. But sometimes we do get some late freezes in late March early April. So it is a gamble but plenty of time to recover.
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Old 11-05-2015, 10:01 PM
  #39  
kyleservicetech
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Originally Posted by solentlife View Post
The old carpenters trick of a groove along the length of the insert to allow the air / excess glue to ooze out and the item go fully home.
Its why furniture dowels are fluted and not smooth.

Nigel

Hi Nigel
Yeah, around here, you can buy pre-made wood dowels with those grooves all ready cut in.

But, take one of those dowels, put some Titebond into the hole, coat the dowel with Titebond, and try to shove it into that tight fitting hole, and you'd better have a rubber hammer to drive it home!
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Old 11-05-2015, 11:19 PM
  #40  
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Originally Posted by kyleservicetech View Post
Hi Nigel
Yeah, around here, you can buy pre-made wood dowels with those grooves all ready cut in.

But, take one of those dowels, put some Titebond into the hole, coat the dowel with Titebond, and try to shove it into that tight fitting hole, and you'd better have a rubber hammer to drive it home!
I find they are usually a tight fit without glue anyway ...

But I only apply glue to the hole ... leaving the dowel to grab as it goes in.

I've lost count of number of flat pack kitchens I've put together over the years !! Present house has 2 complete kitchen sets and still can take more ... yes its a large room.

nigel
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Old 11-07-2015, 03:59 PM
  #41  
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Originally Posted by dereckbc View Post
Thank you everyone for your responses. In conclusion some have questioned the brand. I am using Robert Shaw 30-Minute epoxy sold in virtually every Hobby Shop. Everything I have read indicates Robert Shaw epoxy is a quality product. Not to say I might have an old product or something else wrong. But none of the other batches seem to have the problem.

When wax paper was brought up at first seemed like a good answer, but I have never heard of that before. I also make golf clubs and we mix in glass beads in the epoxy to strengthen it. So I was curious and went on line and Googled Wax Paper, Epoxy. What I found leads be to believe wax paper likely had nothing to do with it. If you did the same and Googled like I did you will found Wax Paper is used with epoxy by many craftsmen, especially boat builders and fiberglass folks. Example to patch or make fiberglass, epoxy paint they will smear the epoxy onto a surface to be coated, cover the epoxy with Wax Paper, and then roll the epoxy to get air bubbles out and to spread the epoxy out evenly. Leave the Wax Paper on until dried, and then peeled off. If you want to try a little experiment, mix some epoxy up on wax paper and let it fully cure. The wax paper will peel right off as the epoxy will not bond to it.

My best guess is I had a brain fart when mixing and used too much hardener. Sine that time I have mixed up a couple of test batches on wax paper and allowed it to cure. Could not repeat what I seen before. I did however put one batch to cure in the fridge and confirmed what I have read that epoxy will not cure if it is kept cool, It needs to be at room temps to cure properly. You can also speed up curing time by keeping it warm like on top of a hot water heater or anything that puts out some heat.

THX again everyone.
Ha HA i did brakes on her car the other day and put a brake pad in backwards with steel side facing rotor .lol i heard it grinding in 3 feet of moving it and saved both rotor and brake pad but told her it was street noise that she heard backing it up a bit . lol We all have our moments and i have had plenty of my share. joe
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Old 11-07-2015, 06:32 PM
  #42  
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Yeah, El-Stupido once mixed up some epoxy using two epoxies, no hardener.

At least after 24 hours, it was easy to clean off with pure alcohol.

Also mixed 5 minute and 30 minute epoxy once. Spotted it before using it.
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Old 11-07-2015, 08:09 PM
  #43  
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Originally Posted by kyleservicetech View Post
Yeah, El-Stupido once mixed up some epoxy using two epoxies, no hardener.

At least after 24 hours, it was easy to clean off with pure alcohol.

Also mixed 5 minute and 30 minute epoxy once. Spotted it before using it.
ha ha yep i have tried mixing epoxy using only one bottle of the two bottle mix before , like watching paint that will never dry . lol joe

Last edited by road king 97; 11-07-2015 at 08:34 PM.
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