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Finished my GWS ME-262....

Old 12-31-2008, 08:49 PM
  #26  
tommytorino
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Ill have to dig around and see what I have. I guess I could use a couple of these leftover 64mm fan and motors from various RTF EDF kits.

When you get the fans, do they include the impeller/plug, ect?

I just hate to spend 10$ extra on some stuff I'm not going to use.

Tommy D
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Old 12-31-2008, 09:15 PM
  #27  
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Supposedly, the NSP version contains fans and the motor adapters.
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Old 01-01-2009, 07:19 PM
  #28  
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Originally Posted by tommytorino View Post
Ill have to dig around and see what I have. I guess I could use a couple of these leftover 64mm fan and motors from various RTF EDF kits.

When you get the fans, do they include the impeller/plug, ect?

I just hate to spend 10$ extra on some stuff I'm not going to use.

Tommy D
It's all bagged in the fan package including housing, rotor and adapter.
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Old 01-02-2009, 12:34 AM
  #29  
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Would it be complete sacrilege to just build it as a twin prop pusher!
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Old 01-02-2009, 02:00 PM
  #30  
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Originally Posted by tommytorino View Post
Would it be complete sacrilege to just build it as a twin prop pusher!
I'd probably put the motors in the nacelle fronts as a tractor setup for balance reasons, but the Rittinger 262 was designed for props.
Actually you could put one single prop in front, like the initial German prototype used to test the airframe. That one was a tail dragger and has been modeled before using the GWS262.
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Old 01-02-2009, 02:08 PM
  #31  
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Good info Bill G... Thanks.
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Old 01-02-2009, 03:58 PM
  #32  
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Anybody know how to get in touch with the GWS CEO in Taiwan? THanks
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Old 01-02-2009, 08:14 PM
  #33  
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Originally Posted by dogsheep View Post
Anybody know how to get in touch with the GWS CEO in Taiwan? THanks
I've read your posts at the GWS forum and that's probably the better place for company support.
Wattflyer also has a Company Dicussions Forum:
http://www.wattflyer.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=37

Mr. Lin lives in Taiwan. Most GWS operations are now in China. The older products such as servos and other gear are still manufactured in Taiwan. Their servos, incidentally, are among the best.
I've never personally tried to get any warranty coverage from GWS. Not worth the hassle cosidering the fans are so cheap that I would just go ahead and order more from a place like Epyaya, that has more recent stock of fans with straight adapters. Same goes for the motors. They can be good, but have quality issues that I've discussed in detail before. With their price increases, I've just decided they are not worth it. I took it as a lesson, and now have gone back to the higher quality $50 inrunners I bought before my GWS inrunner stint.

Personally, I'm tickled to death that I have actually talked with Mr. Lin, who has taken considerable interest in my EDF30 remotored jets. Possibly even enough to get him back on the EDF30 molds, after seeing the custom work of a few of us. When I was posting some of that unique stuff over there, he would readily track down anything I put up. Think I have a personal line to him? Not a chance.

Try even having the dumbest level converstation with, say McAfee, which I could not speak one intelligible word with, in hours of trying to get support. BTW, Mr. Lin's English is actually considerably better than McAfee's average employee.

EDFs are never really PNP, if you really want success:
For initail consideration, this plane, like most low wing warbird jets also requires a considerable amount of experience to have success with. Something to consider if not there yet.

With any brand of fan other than the most expensive (the bare fan costs a lot more than your complete package) I expect to have to use microscopic pin tip applications of thin CA to adapters, to get the rotor 100% true. Next, you often shave plastic from housings and offset shim the motor to gain maybe a few thousands to attempt to center the rotor properly. Once running the fan, it's normal to spend a few hours experimenting with tape weights (often cut as a 1 or 2mm square) to remove every harmonic vibration throughout the entire RPM range. Once determined, you use a pin to apply CA to the light spots, testing and retesting, until you get a smooth fan. If you do all this right and get get in 5 good full power flights without a fan explosion (or crashing, assuming you have the necessary flight experience) then you may actually have a reliable EDF for the future.
As for factory assembled fans, that would be the last thing I want. I don't do well when counting on luck, such as that I may happen to get the "lucky" fan that went together well.

Keep in mind that the setup work described is not just pertaining to GWS, but pretty much everything other than a few multi-hundred dollar fan packages where you pay for the toleraces, factory checks, and balancing.

Better off reading forums BEFORE buying, not after:
As for issues with GWS motors or ESCs, anyone who spends time investigating on the forums will readily find they have issues, so buyer beware. When I used to post on the GWS forum, every now and then someone would come on and would be really upset with GWS. The "usuals" did not care for it at all. The reason was that while we were highly critical of GWS' bad products and mistakes, we liked their good products and planes, and were interested in discussing how to best have success with them. When folks would come on saying things like "I'll never buy again" it didn't phase us, as we knew the issues with their equipment, and were not about to stop buying airframes that we liked so much. We would simply look at it as, "Why didn't they come here first to check out all the info?"
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Old 01-02-2009, 08:31 PM
  #34  
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Nice post Bill.

You know as a lover of 2 stroke prop jets, the thought of 2 props spinning don't bother me one bit.

Wonder if anyone has done it yet.
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Old 01-02-2009, 08:42 PM
  #35  
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Originally Posted by tommytorino View Post
Nice post Bill.

You know as a lover of 2 stroke prop jets, the thought of 2 props spinning don't bother me one bit.

Wonder if anyone has done it yet.
I'm sure someone has. I have a 30" scratchbuild here that I'm about ready to do that with. The plane started life with an undercamber wing years back. Looked silly but flew pretty well with rud/elev. I finally made a decent full airfoiled depron wing with ailerons, and used EDF40 nacelles I already had on the wing. As somewhat expected, not enough power to do anything but barely fly, but the plane showed that it would fly well with the new wing. I've been looking at it the past few days and thinking about tossing in motors I have in the drawer, for a prop setup. Probably would really go with 370-4100 motors ran DD with 4530 props on 3s. Wouldn't be much effort installing them either.
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Old 01-02-2009, 08:51 PM
  #36  
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Originally Posted by Bill G View Post
I've read your posts at the GWS forum and that's probably the better place for company support.
Wattflyer also has a Company Dicussions Forum:
http://www.wattflyer.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=37

Mr. Lin lives in Taiwan. Most GWS operations are now in China. The older products such as servos and other gear are still manufactured in Taiwan. Their servos, incidentally, are among the best.
I've never personally tried to get any warranty coverage from GWS. Not worth the hassle cosidering the fans are so cheap that I would just go ahead and order more from a place like Epyaya, that has more recent stock of fans with straight adapters. Same goes for the motors. They can be good, but have quality issues that I've discussed in detail before. With their price increases, I've just decided they are not worth it. I took it as a lesson, and now have gone back to the higher quality $50 inrunners I bought before my GWS inrunner stint.

Personally, I'm tickled to death that I have actually talked with Mr. Lin, who has taken considerable interest in my EDF30 remotored jets. Possibly even enough to get him back on the EDF30 molds, after seeing the custom work of a few of us. When I was posting some of that unique stuff over there, he would readily track down anything I put up. Think I have a personal line to him? Not a chance.

Try even having the dumbest level converstation with, say McAfee, which I could not speak one intelligible word with, in hours of trying to get support. BTW, Mr. Lin's English is actually considerably better than McAfee's average employee.

EDFs are never really PNP, if you really want success:
For initail consideration, this plane, like most low wing warbird jets also requires a considerable amount of experience to have success with. Something to consider if not there yet.

With any brand of fan other than the most expensive (the bare fan costs a lot more than your complete package) I expect to have to use microscopic pin tip applications of thin CA to adapters, to get the rotor 100% true. Next, you often shave plastic from housings and offset shim the motor to gain maybe a few thousands to attempt to center the rotor properly. Once running the fan, it's normal to spend a few hours experimenting with tape weights (often cut as a 1 or 2mm square) to remove every harmonic vibration throughout the entire RPM range. Once determined, you use a pin to apply CA to the light spots, testing and retesting, until you get a smooth fan. If you do all this right and get get in 5 good full power flights without a fan explosion (or crashing, assuming you have the necessary flight experience) then you may actually have a reliable EDF for the future.
As for factory assembled fans, that would be the last thing I want. I don't do well when counting on luck, such as that I may happen to get the "lucky" fan that went together well.

Keep in mind that the setup work described is not just pertaining to GWS, but pretty much everything other than a few multi-hundred dollar fan packages where you pay for the toleraces, factory checks, and balancing.

Better off reading forums BEFORE buying, not after:
As for issues with GWS motors or ESCs, anyone who spends time investigating on the forums will readily find they have issues, so buyer beware. When I used to post on the GWS forum, every now and then someone would come on and would be really upset with GWS. The "usuals" did not care for it at all. The reason was that while we were highly critical of GWS' bad products and mistakes, we liked their good products and planes, and were interested in discussing how to best have success with them. When folks would come on saying things like "I'll never buy again" it didn't phase us, as we knew the issues with their equipment, and were not about to stop buying airframes that we liked so much. We would simply look at it as, "Why didn't they come here first to check out all the info?"

I DID READ all the posts I could about the 262 and saw Lin's rapid responses to questions.

I did not buy GWS esc's because of my research and thus have "no problems" with them. As for the fans, it appeared that "most" worked out the problems and were able to use them.

HOWEVER, nowhere did I read ANYTHING about warranty coverage or the lack of it, though I DID read a few reports about the inrunners and gave them appropriate weight.

THIS IS MY FIRST EDF, and if GWS's warranty claims process is what I fear, I'll just move on to another manufacturer.

Your post is, indeed, informative, but, believe me, I did my research first and am a bit surprised at how, SO FAR, my warranty claims are being handled.

Time will tell, I suppose, but I would have gladly charged replacement motors and fans and cross-shipped pending my claims.

As for the fans, well, if I had been able to get them locally, I'd have bought a dozen though it would not have helped with my initial problem.

Sum: as this is my first EDF, I wanted to keep to a budget and learn, and my research, apparently, flawed, indictated that this kit, with motors, was worth the "risk," if one avoided the GWS esc's like the plague (I have two CC Phoenix 25's waiting to go!).

Thanks!
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Old 01-03-2009, 12:45 AM
  #37  
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Thanks Airhead, you da man



-----------------------------
Any twin is not necessarily a good starting point as a first EDF, since it's basically everything x 2. That said, I still chose the 262 and built my first EDF as a 262 scratchbuild, and learned quite a bit in the process. Did not fly off the bat, and ended up needing bl motors, as the brushed setup was not quite there. That's when I gave up on the budget idea.

You'll find that most GWS enthusiasts like the planes best as kits. Fortunately I did not get bad adapters, and wouldn't be thrilled either. Still, they are one of the few planes you can get in kit form. The opportunity to build a plane yourself is much better than any manufactured plane. I cringe at the idea of buying anything as a PNP setup. I bought a Starmax HE162 recently, and the lowest priced kit with shipping is $125 with nothing but foam. I just bought a GWS NPS kit for $50 shipped. All that said, compared with my recent Starmax kit, the GWS motors, adapters, and fans would be a "free bee" at the GWS powered kit price. I would simply become a buyer of GWS SL and NPS kits, and go from there, as they are a good bargain. Look at the GWS forum and you'll see why so many of us told GWS if we couldn't get the SG and NPS kits, that we would not buy the other kits.

If you buy an HL $200 PNP jet and realize that all the gear is garbage and the fans are hastily assembled, and some explode on first run up, you'll see there's no great alternatives out there, and GWS, if no better, is definitely no worse.

As for the GWS forum, if you say you'll not buy any more GWS planes, then GWS will just write you off. That's why when I posted there, I constanly praised the products I liked and supported them....
BUT I constantly pointed out how their practice of coming out with low grade ESCs, and general lack of QC on all their other more recent products (esp. motors) was terrible, not as an insult, but for their own good. Then you can keep posting there without being mauled by the resident groupies as you are being all-around fair, and GWS will continue to have to hear the message and see the posts. They are very hard headed, but some things have to sink in eventually. Now that they have raised prices to nearly that of high quality motors and ESCs, they should get the message by default, with no way of ignoring it.

Last edited by Bill G; 01-03-2009 at 01:02 AM. Reason: correct the spelling of "mauled"
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Old 01-03-2009, 01:18 AM
  #38  
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Originally Posted by Bill G View Post
Thanks Airhead, you da man



-----------------------------
Any twin is not necessarily a good starting point as a first EDF, since it's basically everything x 2. That said, I still chose the 262 and built my first EDF as a 262 scratchbuild, and learned quite a bit in the process. Did not fly off the bat, and ended up needing bl motors, as the brushed setup was not quite there. That's when I gave up on the budget idea.

You'll find that most GWS enthusiasts like the planes best as kits. Fortunately I did not get bad adapters, and wouldn't be thrilled either. Still, they are one of the few planes you can get in kit form. The opportunity to build a plane yourself is much better than any manufactured plane. I cringe at the idea of buying anything as a PNP setup. I bought a Starmax HE162 recently, and the lowest priced kit with shipping is $125 with nothing but foam. I just bought a GWS NPS kit for $50 shipped. All that said, compared with my recent Starmax kit, the GWS motors, adapters, and fans would be a "free bee" at the GWS powered kit price. I would simply become a buyer of GWS SL and NPS kits, and go from there, as they are a good bargain. Look at the GWS forum and you'll see why so many of us told GWS if we couldn't get the SG and NPS kits, that we would not buy the other kits.

If you buy an HL $200 PNP jet and realize that all the gear is garbage and the fans are hastily assembled, and some explode on first run up, you'll see there's no great alternatives out there, and GWS, if no better, is definitely no worse.

As for the GWS forum, if you say you'll not buy any more GWS planes, then GWS will just write you off. That's why when I posted there, I constanly praised the products I liked and supported them....
BUT I constantly pointed out how their practice of coming out with low grade ESCs, and general lack of QC on all their other more recent products (esp. motors) was terrible, not as an insult, but for their own good. Then you can keep posting there without being mauled by the resident groupies as you are being all-around fair, and GWS will continue to have to hear the message and see the posts. They are very hard headed, but some things have to sink in eventually. Now that they have raised prices to nearly that of high quality motors and ESCs, they should get the message by default, with no way of ignoring it.
If it wasn't clear, I'm sorry: I implied, and now state the provisional or conditional "if." By this, I mean "if" the warranty repairs or replacements are not reasonable, fair and fast, I'm done with GWS; otherwise, I'll keep buying the products. "Time will tell."

GWS can live without me, and I without "them."

I don't buy twice (or more) from a manufacturer that does not timely and reasonably support its products. AGAIN, TO BE CLEAR, THE JURY IS OUT, and perhaps I'm not reasonable in offering to pay for replacements pending cross-shipment, but, in other industries, other manufacturers have been all too willing to accomodate me in this manner.

That's what makes the world, twirl.

I only want help from GWS or the "CEO," not a marriage.

The sheer volume of Lin's replies and posts regarding the 262 and other models reasonably led me to believe he would reply to me.

Thanks for your help.
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Old 01-03-2009, 01:43 AM
  #39  
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As soon as a post involves service, he seems to disappear.
I think he expects the GWS tech guys that are online to take it, if at all.
Realistically, it would be impossible for him to personally deal with customer service on the forum, or that's all he would ever do. It is his resposibility to appoint others to do that job, but it really can't be expected from him personally, and it's not why he posts there. As much as folks flame him, he really does like to see what people are doing with the planes. Especially the custom stuff. Like it or not, I have never seen Kevin Hisel, Don Anderson, or any other CEO/managers of larger size rc companies posts on the forums period. As I said before, I kinda get a kick out of him at least seeing and taking interest in my remotored EDF30 conversions and stuff like that. Nobody else even does that.

Edit: I see you made the infamous Down The Road status over there.
No offense, I know firsthand how easy it is to do.
BTW Jeff's actually a nice guy in my opinion, but he's a sponsor as well a personal friend of the staff there. Whether it's a sponsor, gold, silver, or bronze, you'll loose by default if you are not a paying member.

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Old 01-07-2009, 10:56 AM
  #40  
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Default Flying styro 262

Anybody know how these fly - I have seen the Hobby Lobby video but would like any independent opinions. Mine will be 30oz with all the mods incl a pair of ammo 20-40 3500 motors and hyperflow fans. Attd is a pic of my cockpit, I am painting the model now.
Rob C
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Old 01-07-2009, 10:40 PM
  #41  
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Help! How did you mount the rudder and elevator servos? Did you build servo rails inside the fuse? I'm afraid the double sided tape is not adequate! Thanks
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Old 01-07-2009, 10:52 PM
  #42  
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Default Me-262 servo mounts

Originally Posted by dogsheep View Post
Help! How did you mount the rudder and elevator servos? Did you build servo rails inside the fuse? I'm afraid the double sided tape is not adequate! Thanks
Dog - Call me "old school" but I am not a proponent of using tape to hold down something as important as a servo. See the attd photo for the rudder and elevator servo mount system...
Rob
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Old 01-13-2009, 11:24 PM
  #43  
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Default gws me 262

hi, i have had and destroyed as many me 262's as jg7 ! The biggest problem i have had, excluding not being even a moderate pilot, is the cg. some early kits have a confusing figure, 85 mm but from the APEX of the leading edge which is 75 from the actual as moulded l/e. Also cable lengths, it does not like assymetric motor run. 1 of mine (not so lucky 7) had this endearing trait but only for a couple of flights.SUPPOSEDLY A CASTLE OR KONTRONIC speedy can cope with 2(or more) motors but its not something i can rate, anyone tried? It is , however , such a cheap thing that a few airframes is not such an expensive thing for all the fun. ciao phil
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Old 01-13-2009, 11:50 PM
  #44  
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Default GWS 262

Mine is the Flying Styro 262 but may be the same. I am runninng 2 Castle 18 amp ESC's and I am planning to link the throttle to the rudder using two ports on the receiver so if I have an issue I can trim it out. I also have rudder on mine, but not much throw. Interesting comment on the CG. There is a mathematical way to figure the COL of the wing and therefore the CG of the aircraft, perhaps that is the thing to do.
Rob C
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Old 01-14-2009, 12:44 AM
  #45  
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Mines Stock with 55 EDF's on a three-cell 1600, a sweet tame flyer with no bad habits in 12-14 flights, she don't stall till shes claw'in air and ROG pretty much a hands-off punch & go strait down the tar-mac, likes to land fly'in as she can get squrrly slow and low near the ground, bub, steve
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Old 01-14-2009, 05:23 PM
  #46  
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Did anybody here on wattflyer do a build thread? I've had a GWS 262 sitting in a box from when they were first released. I was hopeing to get around to it this winter and started snoopin' around. I've found a few ref. to the c/g issues but thats about all. Any thoughts?
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Old 01-14-2009, 09:00 PM
  #47  
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Originally Posted by casor View Post
Mine is the Flying Styro 262 but may be the same. I am runninng 2 Castle 18 amp ESC's and I am planning to link the throttle to the rudder using two ports on the receiver so if I have an issue I can trim it out. I also have rudder on mine, but not much throw. Interesting comment on the CG. There is a mathematical way to figure the COL of the wing and therefore the CG of the aircraft, perhaps that is the thing to do.
Rob C
The thing to do if you want to be like Ken on RCG who crashed his early bird 262, and refused to listen to those who have experimented with the design. Pardon me for being non-theory, but I hold faith in what I've proven from actual experimentation. There are still a lot of theory types on the forums, trying to convince folks to crash planes by setting at 30% MAC, 1/3 center chord, or some other insanely aft setting. Now someone will probably try to step in and claim that their plane flys well at that point. Good for them, as it probably has a long tail moment, overscaled h-stab, and other things contributing to being able to fly at an AFT CG. Not the norm, and not good advice though.

With swept wings, the sweep does not move the CG rearward as much as calculations would show. The fuse body has a lifting effect, and apparently, through pure experimentation, the inner wing portion is more effective per sq-in that the outer. Add that to the effect of underslung nacelles, and what I've found is that the CG should be treated as if the wing has no sweep. In other words, start at 25% center chord, or even a bit less to be safe, like any other plane. It's almost as if the sweep is not there, on a 262.

If I remember correctly, my first flew well at around 69mm from LE, until the BEC overheated. Not a bad flying plane at all, and I'm convinced that a number of bad reports came from those who refused to add the needed lead to the nose, cringing at making their plane heavier. They don't fool me, since I used to do the same thing. I'll throw as much weight at a plane as I have to now, to set the CG where instinct says it should be. Amazing how heavy models can fly well at, if everything is correct.
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Old 01-15-2009, 01:25 AM
  #48  
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Bill G::Thats where I started (25%) and thats where it stayed!!!! good post'in Bill, your bub, steve
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Old 01-15-2009, 11:21 AM
  #49  
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Originally Posted by stevecooper View Post
Bill G::Thats where I started (25%) and thats where it stayed!!!! good post'in Bill, your bub, steve
On the A10, for whatever reason, the plane seems to like to to fly with the tail low, seemingly tail heavy. I had to move my A10's CG quite far forward for decent flight. Probably no further back than 25%, if I remember correctly. It's sold and down the road now. Hope it's still surviving.

Originally Posted by K CLOSE View Post
Did anybody here on wattflyer do a build thread? I've had a GWS 262 sitting in a box from when they were first released. I was hopeing to get around to it this winter and started snoopin' around. I've found a few ref. to the c/g issues but thats about all. Any thoughts?
I had a really extensive build thread on RCG a few years back. I went overkill with the CF, but the one mod that I would say is essential is to extend the rear CF rod in the wing, that runs up to the nacelle, past the nacelle an inch or so. From past experience, a light 262 nose in will tear the wings off, due to the nacelle weight. The stress concentration is right at the inside of the nacelle at the rear of the wing. I told the first early bird flyer at RCG to do that. Sure enough, he had a light nose in, and the wings failed there. I used a CF rod of .080" if I remember correctly, which fit perfectly inside the GWS supplied fiberglass tubing.

I also like the idea of installing the fans directly in the front of the nacelles. Provides needed forward weight, versus nose lead, looks more scale correct, and the fans are removable. You can glue small ply plates onto the nacelle sides, and use small screws to secure the fan housings. Just make sure that the screws do not protrude through the fan sweep.
Bill G is offline  
Old 01-18-2009, 05:43 AM
  #50  
ltbidrawn
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Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 83
Default 262 performance?

just finished a gws 262. installed big motors and put the esc units in the thrust tubes.
this is the best looking foamie ive ever done/seen.
ive flown it twice.

not very impressed with its flying characteristics. it's got plenty of power but tends to wallow in turns and feels sorta....sloppy.
is this just the way 262s are? i hope not cause this is hands down my favorite plane of its era.
ltbidrawn is offline  

Quick Reply: Finished my GWS ME-262....


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