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What is 4D, as in 3d 2d 1d

Old 08-27-2009, 08:41 PM
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sam94
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Default What is 4D, as in 3d 2d 1d

I AM NOT ON ABOUT 4D PLANES ~~~

Now i know what 1d 2d 3d is, but i do not understand 4d, i have read info about 4d and others say its time, i dont understand it though, how can 3d be a 3d object and 4d be , well , nothing.

Is 4D space, is 4D something that never ends, such as space.

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Old 08-27-2009, 08:46 PM
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MaxAdventure
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Default Time.

The first three dimensions describe space. The fourth dimension is time.

just MHO.

And I go on to describe ethereal movement as the 6th dimension. But that's just me.


So, to speak to 'how can it be' in your post; a physical object is defined by it's length, width, and height. However if it is, and continues to be, then it also has a duration, thus as time passes the object still is and so has a 4th dimension. Meaning it still is from moment to moment.
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Old 08-27-2009, 08:59 PM
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sam94
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Originally Posted by MaxAdventure View Post
The first three dimensions describe space. The fourth dimension is time.

just MHO.

And I go on to describe ethereal movement as the 6th dimension. But that's just me.


So, to speak to 'how can it be' in your post; a physical object is defined by it's length, width, and height. However if it is, and continues to be, then it also has a duration, thus as time passes the object still is and so has a 4th dimension. Meaning it still is from moment to moment.
So what you mean is never ending, right?, like space as we know it
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Old 08-27-2009, 10:19 PM
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MaxAdventure
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Originally Posted by sam94 View Post
So what you mean is never ending, right?, like space as we know it
Well, from our perspective I would agree time and space appear to be never ending.

However, never say never!

e.g., if all things can be everywhere at once, space - as we know it, ends. In the same sense, if all things can be everywhen at once - the same goes for time.

Although I think ceases to be, is better than 'ends'.
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Old 08-27-2009, 10:46 PM
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I've never liked the term 4D or similar. Sure there are other things to measure. Time being the prime one that most people think of. However assigning it to a dimension and simply calling it the 4th dimension is pretty awful. Time is not a dimension, not a physical thing, nor can it be manipulated.

4D is a mostly amateurish term for laymen like most of us.
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Old 08-27-2009, 10:51 PM
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I learned them 3-R's in sckool,
Now I'm a'work'in on me Three-Dee's!
bubsteve
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Old 08-28-2009, 06:39 AM
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Originally Posted by Octavius View Post
I've never liked the term 4D or similar. Sure there are other things to measure. Time being the prime one that most people think of. However assigning it to a dimension and simply calling it the 4th dimension is pretty awful. Time is not a dimension, not a physical thing, nor can it be manipulated.

4D is a mostly amateurish term for laymen like most of us.
Actually 4 dimensional 'spacetime' is a accepted concept in physics since Einstein introduced it in his 'theory of special relativity', which has since been proved in many experiments.
Time is not an unchanging constant, it's relative to speed and gravity. Time is a 'genuine' dimension just like the normal 3 spatial dimensions.. It's just not easy to get your head around.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spacetime
http://www.theory.caltech.edu/people...cia/st101.html
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Old 08-28-2009, 04:33 PM
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Originally Posted by stevecooper View Post
I learned them 3-R's in sckool,
Now I'm a'work'in on me Three-Dee's!
bubsteve
It's the 4th D that eventually kills ya.
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Old 08-28-2009, 07:49 PM
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Octavius
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Originally Posted by JetPlaneFlyer View Post
Actually 4 dimensional 'spacetime' is a accepted concept in physics since Einstein introduced it in his 'theory of special relativity', which has since been proved in many experiments.
Time is not an unchanging constant, it's relative to speed and gravity. Time is a 'genuine' dimension just like the normal 3 spatial dimensions.. It's just not easy to get your head around.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spacetime
http://www.theory.caltech.edu/people...cia/st101.html
I get it. I just don't like the term used for it. Physical dimensions are clearly not the same as spacetime so why us the same term. No it is not "just like".
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Old 08-29-2009, 01:27 AM
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I figured it's like fly'in tomorrow today!!!bubsteve
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Old 08-29-2009, 06:12 AM
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Originally Posted by Octavius View Post
I get it. I just don't like the term used for it. Physical dimensions are clearly not the same as spacetime so why us the same term. No it is not "just like".
When you think of dimensions relative to volume, this is an easy perspective to agree with. A '3D' object could be hollow, and filled. So how can time be like that? You have to make a paradigm shift to thinking of stopping and starting. An object starts at a given point, and lasts to a given point in the 'X' axis, as well as on the 'y', and 'z'. Then you just go one step further and it starts at this point on the 't' axis (to borrow a 3D term) and lasts to n point. Now it has a height, width, breadth, and duration. Without all four, it can't 'be' with the rest of us that have those four dimensions.

I expect someone with a far bigger brain than I will state things succinctly quite soon.
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Old 08-29-2009, 04:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Octavius View Post
I've never liked the term 4D or similar. Sure there are other things to measure. Time being the prime one that most people think of. However assigning it to a dimension and simply calling it the 4th dimension is pretty awful. Time is not a dimension, not a physical thing, nor can it be manipulated.

4D is a mostly amateurish term for laymen like most of us.
Wow, finally I meet someone else in this world who sees this as I do.

Time, isnt anything at all. It is nothing more than a system devised by man to organize life. It's nothing more than the hands of the clock and it's mechanics or elecronics that drives it. Only by this do we have any perception of what we call time. And thats just it, its only a perception.
But time doesnt exist, and isnt a something that can be measured, or traveled in, or altered. Time travel simply isnt possible, for there is not anything to travel in.
If you could travel deep into space, far far away from any star or planets what would your perception of time be then? Right, your chronometer would be the only thing that would create any time perception. And if it failed? Hmmmmmm, now what?

Eventually, time would have no meaning or relavence to anything.

Time travel is a really neat idea, but thats all it is. It's something we all would love to do, and storytellers, and novels, and movies have depicted it all throughout history and well, we love'em dont we?
For how cool is it to do such a thing? All of us im sure would love the chance to go back in time and correct something we did. Or go forward and see the future, maybe even take something back from it to the present. But its not gonna happen, it cant. is one of those constants in the universe that we simply must accept.
This is why its so imperitive that we concentrate on the here and now, and make each momment count.

But..............if by some chance, that by some quantum physics thing that it were possible, I think there'd be a price to pay. And that would be that you cant take with you any present knowlege and experience.
Yes, you wouldnt even know you'd gone back, you would simply be you back then. And so then, there'd be no purpose in going in the first place.
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Old 08-29-2009, 05:29 PM
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[QUOTE] Time, isnt anything at all. It is nothing more than a system devised by man to organize life. [QUOTE]

WOW, i love this speech you have wrote and i now understand it all better, and i understand time better than what i already knew, you know what, i love this speech so much i have saved it to my documents.

Thank you
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Old 08-29-2009, 07:07 PM
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Originally Posted by Sabrehawk View Post
If you could travel deep into space, far far away from any star or planets what would your perception of time be then? Right, your chronometer would be the only thing that would create any time perception. And if it failed? Hmmmmmm, now what?

Eventually, time would have no meaning or relavence to anything.
So by your logic if I travelled into deep space and my clocks stopped time as we know it also would stop, presumably therefore I would cease to age and live forever? Could I not judge time, at least roughly by the beats of my heart?.. Or are you suggesting that would stop once the last clock stopped?

Humans are the only animal to use clocks yet other creature's lives are still entirely governed by the passage of time. Saying time would not exist if it were not for clocks is like saying distance would not exist if it were not for the tape measure.

I dont pretend to fully understand the concept of the single entity that is 'spacetime' but I dont think you can logically deduce that time itself is a human construct and effects only us.

Also for what it's worth Einstein showed us that the passage of time can indeed be 'altered'. If we design a vehicle to travel at a speed approaching lightspeed then time for those onboard would slow down relative to those left behind (for those onboard time back home would appear to speed up).
So if I could travel at a speed approaching lightspeed then I could zoom off for what for me was a few minutes or hours and come back to find the world had moved on days, months, years or even millenia . So 'time travel' is possible but only forwards.. and until we come up with a FAR faster form of transport the differences are only going to be tiny.
Einstien's theory of special relativity has been proved in practice many times http://www.vias.org/physics/bk6_01_03.html .

Steve

Last edited by JetPlaneFlyer; 08-29-2009 at 07:37 PM.
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Old 08-29-2009, 08:41 PM
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4D is when time stops PERIOD because thats when we stop celebrating birthdays
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Old 08-30-2009, 12:41 AM
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I was 3/D'in my E-FlightEdge540 in 10 knot's of air all afternoon,,, I'd Swan-nee there's 5/D now,
Only the most core'rage'ist airo'nut'a'cal Hero's of the air & commander's of the sky's would try such wizard'ree of the at'most'fear, a truely grand achievement from this fear-less champion of the strat'is'fear!!!
Ya'll's humble Bub,,,,steve
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Old 08-30-2009, 06:48 PM
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Originally Posted by Rolling Thunder View Post
4D is when time stops PERIOD because thats when we stop celebrating birthdays

See? I KNEW someone would come along and put it more succinctly... (I stopped counting at thir-D, but I can see it will stop altogether when I turn four-D.)
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Old 08-31-2009, 01:25 AM
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I can't believe any-one is taken this 4/D seriouslybubsteve

What you see is a klein bottle, a figure embedded in the 4th Dimension! It has an intersection in 3-dimensional space but none in 4-dimensional space.
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Old 08-31-2009, 06:10 AM
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Very cerebral, gentlemen, I applaud your efforts......... with one hand...
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Old 08-31-2009, 06:48 AM
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Originally Posted by TLyttle View Post
Very cerebral, gentlemen, I applaud your efforts......... with one hand...
And yet I don't hear it.
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Old 08-31-2009, 07:03 AM
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time is definetly very important mechanic in physics. not just a system made by man to be able to keep appointments.
those familiar with engineering mathematics has definetly heard about "dynamics". or "a dynamic system" or "a dynamic model".
dynamics is a system that changes with time, and it is WAYYY too many physical and mathematical equations that relies on time to work at all, for this whole time thing to be coincidental, or something man made.
the whole aspect of differential equations, wich is often used as an example of some of the hardest things to grasp in engineering mathematics, is all about time dependant systems. without time to be a core part of physics, all differential equations would fall apart.
calling time for the fourth dimension must not be confused with the x,y and z axis often used to describe the 3 "known" dimensions.
it is more of a mathematical term that is used to visualize how you can crunch numbers on it.
in nuclear and quantum physics, its pretty frequent to calculate with 10 dimensions or more.
nobody claims for all these "dimensions", to actually be dimensions. but they do describe properties of elementary particles, and they can indeed be calculated vectorially, as if they were dimensions.
time is one of these "dimensions", that is included in these calculations, and it is ususally the 4th dimension.

so for the layman, callin time for a dimension might not make much sense, without being familiar with how it is often used in mathematics.
and hence, calling time for a dimension might be said to be a bad choice of words from the scientist who thought of it.
but time is definetly a lot more than just a way for us humans to keep appointments. physics wouldnt work, if it was only that.
as a matter of fact, our humans definition of time is based on the quantum physics.
the unit second is defined from a given number of oscillations of a given atom. (wich i beleive is caesium).
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Old 08-31-2009, 06:40 PM
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WOW I thought 4D was one of those airplanes with a reversible propeller that can move backwards.
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