Bill G

Been there done that, from the scratch builds. Its an awkward plane, in that the underslung nacelle induced pitch up requires a nose heavy cg condition that requires a bit off-scale elevator with high up-throw to compensate. Don't dive hard. Some of this can be corrected with downthrust in the nacelles. I guess FSK must have worked these variables out. Like to know what the elevator and nacelle angles are relative to the wing, on theirs.

Bmiller

I bought a blade CP a few months ago. shoulda got the cx for hovering inside! Your ME-163 looks fantastic! It'll go faster with a prop however!

RocketRob

Bruce,
Try the tye envelopes from Staples in the 8.5x11" size for cheap acetate sheet. I think 10 sheets/envelops for around $3. Clear or colors...

Tiger,
What does she weigh all up? What battery combo?
Thanks Rob

St. Martin

I got to see Curtis's 262 saturday. Beautiful plane. I'm glad he did not ask me to throw it in that "obnoxious" wind..

Fuzz

Bmiller

She is a looker!
I found some K&S clear plastic sheet at another LHS today.
they had .010/.015/.030 thicknesses.
Got the .010 and it's much stiffer than the supplied paper. Will work well!
Thanks for all the tips!

BTW: Hiflyer(Hobby-Lobby) posted the CG is misleading in the manuals illustration(pg12)
Says use his: 80mm from leading edge of wing.
He posted on the RCG ME-262 thread in the electric warbirds forum if you want to verify.
Bruce

easytiger

Beleive me, it would not have been pretty!

I test flew it today. Actually, test LAUNCHED it.
Three times. Three major crashes.

The problem is the manual is not clear on the correct CG, it's way aft. Mike Hines at HL did not have a problem with his demo models, as the manual had not been written at the time he built his, he got the CG from a photo the factory sent. Something was lost in translation when the manual was written, this was rather disastrous!
HL, as always, rose to the occasion and then some, a new two-seater will be on the way in the morning, and the equipement will be transferred into it.
This one will get plug-in landing gear. Mike Hines said he got successful takeoffs from pavement without steerable nosegear, so I will try it.
At any rate, don't try to fly it with the CG in the manual, you will meet with certain disaster. It should be more like 75mm from the seam where the wing meets the fuse, but wait for further testing from me, or clarification from Mike Hines, before flying...

t_burley

thanks for the info ET. I just read about the same info at RCgroups about the CG also

easytiger

He posted it right after I talked to him, I asked him to post it here, too.

tommytorino

Hmmmm now I know who was flying the "little electrics" in the wind while the "big boys" were grounded!

As for the 262... must... not .... buy.. at.. the.... NEAT.... fair!!

Tommy D

easytiger

Yup, that was me! Fearless and stupid, don't care about the wind!
Were you there?

The 262 is a fantastic model, totally worth owning, I am 100% sure it will fly like a dream once the CG gets sorted. Mine is probably repairable enough for another flight attempt, though I used an awful lot of five minute epoxy on it today already. I will patch it up and try it again when I am upstate tomorrow. As soon as the new two seater arrives, I will strip out the battered single seater and install the gear in that.

Bill G

I got the stupid part down, but I could actually use more of the fearless part.

When I scratch built my first, well my first flying 262, I learned about 262 CG. At something like 25% MAC, it would tail slide into the 3 foot grass. 3 foot high grass helps. At 20%, same thing. Kept cutting my foam batt shim block, moving the batt forward, to move the cg 1mm forward at a time. When I finally got it, it was some outrageously forward value like 16%MAC. Moving just a mm or so back from that point, tailslides to ground. Moving just a mm or so forward, and it is so darn nose heavy, it requires heavy up elevator to keep in flight. I had to increase elevator travel form 8mm to about 11mm, to get out of dives. Its not a normal plane. To compensate for the underslung pitch up effect, it requires a far forward cg. Once you're there, any farther forward, and its way too nose heavy. This plane is a delicate balance. If I were to try any 262 kit without knowing the cg, Id probably start with something like 16%, and make sure I had a hell of a lot of up elevator throw, and not let it dive much on turns, gradually sorting the beast out.

I imagine the plane did not come with factory cg marks on the wing?
Glad to hear they gave you another one Curtis.

easytiger

No factory CG marks. Funny, we were commenting on just that while flying the living heck out of the Alfa Sabre today, how smart that is to include the cg on the molding....

Bill G

It really shows professionalism. They are confident enough to put the mark permanently on the mold. Not that the mold couldn't be altered to change it, but that would be bad press.

easytiger

The alfa planes are much less critical of CG anyway, they are more modified for flying than the FS models, which are much more scale. But no doubt the Alfas have been flight tested more.
I like the Alfa planes, especially the Sabre, but I really LOVE the FS planes, for their scale detail. No comparison. If you are really nuts about scale, it's FS. If you are more into just flying, Alfa all the way. Either one is cool, but those who just don't "get" the whole scale aspect of the FS, well, you can't explain the attraction to them, why they would take a FS P51 over an Alfa one...

Bill G

Just about any plane is less critical of cg than the 262.
I'm into scale, but still think the Alfa's are a pretty good scale rendering, when compared with 90% of the foam world. Like that newer Parkzone FW190, where the cowl looks horrible. The Alfa 190 is museum scale quality compared with it. Then again, the FSK 190 can even have a functioning cooler fan, like the real one. My problem with the FSK is that it looks so good that I won't fly it.

What are your plans for the first 262 Curtis? Plan on fixing it up, or selling as a bodyman's special.

easytiger

Fix it up for another flight, before stripping it for the gear for the next one. Nothing to lose except some epoxy....

St. Martin

I have to think of the thrust-line diferance of the 262 and F-86. Such a low thrust line on the 262. It would probably glide well on no power @ a rearward CG. Add power, and it acts tail heavy. Possibly a change in pod angle would yield a less sensitive CG?

Fuzz

Bmiller

I think the scale factor comes into play with F/S. If the real one didn't have cg bumps than neither will the model!

Waiting for ET to fly his and see how CG sensitive the F/S actually is.
I haven't started building mine yet,
I could set it up with downthrust if I knew how much angle is needed.
Maybe BillG knows?

Bruce

Bill G

I went about 2-3 degrees, as accurately as I can measure it, which seemed to help my first 262 substantially. I got to see the comparison on this one, because it was originally built with zero downthrust. Probably a better solution along with downthrust, or maybe stand alone, is a larger stabilizer. On the model, it doesn't seem to like to be scale, like other models. I needed to add steep elevator throw to pull out of reasonably shallow dives. I incresed scale size on the next build. I think FSK probably wants to keep the stab close to scale. I'd try to make it larger, maybe even by taping on temporary extensions with easy release tape, just to see the effect.

Bruce you're kidding me! I'd have called in to work for a sick day, to stay home and build that bird. Maybe even 2 days, if needed.

Heiner had reccomended an slight elevator incidence angle in the past too. Don't remember the specifics. I think the full size ones have neg 1 degree. It would seem to me that it should be pos, but I'm sure they had a reason.

easytiger

While the thrustline MAY affect the trim, it was certainly not the deciding factor in THIS crash...just a way-aft CG, no doubt about it, confirmed from Mike Hines and the FS factory, no ifs ands or buts...

Good point on the bumps and scale fidelity!

Bmiller

Sorry for the delayed reply, We're trying to buy a fourplex townhouse in Oregon so we(the family)can become slumlords!
Thanks Bill, I'll try and see what incidence it's set at normally or ET can check and I'll go from there. I'd like to end up with a flyer that doesn't have huge trim issues with the power on or off.
I'm a member of BPSTC leftcoast so no plane will be built before its time!
Plus I just spent near $600 on that airliner!
Can't enlarge this "scale" stabilizer, that would be a sin!
Thanks Easy!

Bruce

easytiger

The new two seater 262 arrived today. It's even nicer than the single, I especially like the paint scheme better.
I want to do a nice job of it, I doubt I will get the time this week to get it ready in time for the Liberty Bell Jet Rally at the end of the week, I have the Babycat on the bench, and a bunch of maintainance on some other birds to get ready. We shall see...

termite

Curtis,
Libert Bell Jet Rally - When and where?

My wife informed me that her folks are visiting next week and that maybe I would want to be somewhere else for the weekend, isn't she the coolest!!!!

Randy

easytiger

Lebanon, PA, next fri sat sun. And a little on thurs. GREAT event, you MUST go, I think Chris True should be there, and tons of assorted jets...you can fly MY stuff if you can't bring your own, no sweat...

easytiger

I spent an hour in the bathtub last night just cutting out all the styrene parts with a pair of pedicure scissors. I think doing all the plastics at once is the right call, it's kind of tedious work and slows down the building process, but once you are in the groove, just doing plastics, they go reasonably quickly. The pedicure scissors work better than anything else.