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Old 02-12-2010, 11:20 PM   #76
Alpea42
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Default

It's a real one . You replied.

THE B-2 Worlds most expensive airplane.
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Old 02-13-2010, 12:59 AM   #77
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Default Real One???

Originally Posted by Alpea42 View Post
It's a real one . You replied.
I am a little slow sometimes... :^) Thanks for a reference to my signature tag line... :^)

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Old 02-13-2010, 10:40 AM   #78
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Default Remember The Alamo...In Your Prayers...Another One...

No, your eye's are not fooling you....its 3:20 am. I have been up and at it for over an hour.
I heard a dog barking at the back of the house (we do not own a dog) and went to investigate at 2:30
am with my trusty kenetic LCD flashlight. I feared an abandoned cat we have been feeding was in trouble.
This feline elder statesman is a real survivor. Much too old to change his outdoor ways or he would have
immediately become someone's inside cat.

With the approach of cold weather we began providing a place to get away from the harsh weather and
of course he loves Iams cat food. Nothing but the best for "Alamo". Yes, I named him Alamo... ;^)

This cat's owners bought a home shortly after crossing our southern border. Ah, you can see where this
one is going, can't you... ;^) Their prestine white long haired male cat is a robust unneutered male. If
you know anything about cats you know the previous sentence results in a daily tour to mark and defend
this cat's territory.

Oliver, our indoor cat, a Maine Coon (known to grow to over 20 pounds without ever looking fat) quickly
became best bud with "Alamo". By the way, I gave that name to "Alamo" long before he was abandoned.
You have to ask why?

Well this cat is a parity of Misión San Antonio de Valero the Alamo ("cottonwood" in spanish) the famous
icon in San Antonio, TX. Site of the March 6, 1836 oppression of Northeastern Mexico settlers and origin
of the phrase "Remember the Alamo".


Our international readers may not be up to speed on origin and reason for phrase "Remember the Alamo".
Let me say the first year "Alamo" toured the neighborhood was interesting. This cross eye'd white cat
would walk across our rear patio with his beautiful pink ears...with ball point pen artwork on its back side
of each "ear"... ""

After six months Alamo's oppression seemed to subside as the neighbor's children learned what paper was.
Life was great, touring the landscape, basking in the sun or walking the cat highway (fence rows between
each property).
With the economic down turn...Alamo began to show up at our patio more often...
and in a less than a "plump" state. Just before Thanksgiving, Paulette and I decided Alamo was in need of
a little support from his norte neighbor. Sam Houston, wasn't going to show up with his army. Remember
they didn't way-back-when. Somehow, I thought the neighbor would not appreciate being attacked...

:^)

I chased off the neighbor's dog and poured another cup of the finest in Alamo's bowl as he purred louder
than I have ever heard him purr :^) Alamo and I shared a private moment, or one that is usually private...
but no more since I came up stairs to share it.

"Remember d' Alamo" when you see an abandoned or abused animal, especially in harsh weather... ;^)

In my next post I will begin to introduce components which will be enclosed within the inboard nacelle.
They will be shown in their "anticiapted" locations and you'll see why it was necessary to print full size
images of the nacelle and pylon.

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Old 02-14-2010, 02:24 AM   #79
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Default B-47 Airfoils for Wing, Horz. and Vert. Stab

Hi Ed!

Are you using specific NACA airfoils for the wing, horizontal and vertical stabilizers? If so, could you let me know what they are? (I'm a Mac user, and the only airfoil plotter I have is MacFoil; it does a good job on virtually any airfoil that there is tabulated offsets for.) According to the UIC data list, the B-47 used a NACA 64A(.225)12 mod (or a boeing proprietary BAC 145) - for the wing, I guess; no info on the stabilizers. Any suggestions would be appreciated.

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Old 02-14-2010, 05:05 AM   #80
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Default B-47 Airfoil = [email protected] degrees

Originally Posted by Capt. Midnight View Post
Hi Ed! Are you using specific NACA airfoils for the wing, horizontal and
vertical stabilizers? If so, could you let me know what they are? (I'm a Mac user, and the only airfoil
plotter I have is MacFoil; it does a good job on virtually any airfoil that there is tabulated offsets for.)

According to UIC data list, the B-47 used a NACA 64A(.225) 12 mod (or a Boeing proprietary BAC 145)
- for the wing, I have no info on the horiz stab. Any suggestions would be appreciated. Dave P.
Dave,

I going to use the BAC145 @ 1.5 deg which is not this example as it does not have an optional CG location
so I increased it to 6 deg to see the effect.


The airfoil, either the modified NACA or the BAC145, are both modified. I used the Boeing Aircraft Company
BAC145 because it has less shovel effect than the NACA. Note the airfoil above matches the root airfoil below.
Image is sans leading edge.


I called the software author, an aeronautical consultant to the U.S. Navy to discuss the NACA and BAC
airfoils. Kevin said to use the BAC and not the NACA. None of the Boeing modified NACA foils will plot
correctly without additional data
.

This is the NACA airfoil... note, the shovel effect is too great for my taste. Given our limited thrust, I
am going with the BAC145 @ 1.5~2.5 deg in relation to the B-47's "level" backbone.


More importantly, the BAC145 aspect ratio at the root coupled with what I will call a guppy belly on
the airfoil provide an exceptionally smooth flow below the wing because it is virtually flat past the
guppy bulge...all the way to trailing edge.

6 degrees of incidence was used on the graph formula to observe the degree of shovel effect
encountered from the root out to inboard pylon fence. BAC145 is a modified laminar flow that is
very effecient at 1.5 ~ 2 deg of incidence.

I wouldn't use 3 degrees because parisitic drag increases radically just in the jump of 1 deg at
the higher degree level.

Don't be concerned about the BAC145 leading edge angle of attack of 1.5~2 deg at the root.


I am going to place both the top down and side images here so you can see all the incidences
and their differences across the wing from the root to the tip. The two nacelles are at different
incidence, as is the root and the tip airfoil. There is anhedrial across the wing as well.


You must use very little down aileron because of the minimum effect of the opposite aileron in the
"up" position. The outboard wing opens the flow envelope but it closes back behind the wing.

Adding vortex generators aka turbulators across the wing in front of the aileron forces flow to
settle down across the top of the wing instead of overshooting the ailerons. They permit aileron
in the up position to have an effect on roll axis.

Stu Maxwell advised to only place a small amount of down diflection on the ailerons. The "up"
position is where the majority of the roll axis will be controlled. Flite manuals cautioned against
quick off axis or cross control of the B-47.

Sam Collins was able to get up close and personal with the B-47 at the Eighth Air Force Museum
in Savannah, GA. He confirmed the aileron hinge is "above" the aileron airfoil centerline. A reverse
"Freese" style. This greatly constrains downward movement.

I will perform a modified Immelmann and Chandelle entered at 15 to 20 feet ending at 140 ~ 160 ft.
This video does an excellent job of explaining the L.A.B.S. (Low Altitude Bombing System).




The Chandelle is a more gentle 180 degree climbing turn to a 20% gain in altitude.



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Old 02-14-2010, 05:42 AM   #81
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Default BAC 145 Airfoil coordinates

Hi Ed!

I can see that the airfoil you have on the thread looks like the BAC XXX airfoil; but what is the relation between the BAC XXX and the BAC 145 airfoil? In the airfoil "index", the BAC XXX airfoil is listed as for an "Energy Efficient Transport Program" - how could this have been used for the B-47?

On the drawings I have, the wings seem to have about a negative 1.5-degree anhedral: will you be incorporating this feature in your model?

I can't find any published information on either the airfoil or the anhedral.

Dave P.
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Old 02-14-2010, 03:07 PM   #82
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Default Root Of B-47's Evil

Dave,

I am using the airfoil which most closely matches the B-47 airfroil at the side of the fuselage... from the root to the tip. I
have collected multiple images of the root shape over the last six months. Do not be overly concerned if you want to use
a symetrical airfoil.

A Clark Y should work well...however it will not allow a scale fuselage wing intersect. Note the reflex of the BAC provides
the long swept trailing edge viewed when looking down the backbone.




Remember, I am building for FAI F4C. In addition to the fuselage issue, It is in need of a high aspect ratio for lift at the root
in order to compensate for a less than desirable wing area, while reducing size of the model. Its important to reduce overall
weight. My model must be capable of hitting a mark and stop in under 650'...every time.

So its going to look like this:



I'm using 2.5 degrees of incidence on our B-47's with "2" degrees of anhedral...;^)



I place two photographs below that erronously appear to show excessive anhedral. Do not be confused in thinking what you
see is severe anhedral. There are collapsed outrigger oleos plus wing incidence that permits upper and lower surface of wing
to show more than usual. All pylons are 90 degrees to the wing.


The above anhedral reference in the photo caption does not take into account the rearward sweep and taper of wing. It
is an anhedral "illusion".




Its interesting how Boeing used air resistance aka mass of the wing tank at 3.75 degrees to dynamically reign-in wing flex
while incidence of the inboard nacelle is only 45 seconds.



These are two of the six headon views I have.

Yes, anhedral is designed in. That becomes a task within the thread "after" the nacelle and pylon are designed...which at this
point is about 40% complete. Do not hop around on an airframe during work-up or design. You won't accomplish much if you
do. I have to constantly fight the urge to work on another area when I get tired of the focus...

To many this is something new. It will never grow old, only tiring to get through many intricate details too often people take
for granted. After the nacelle and pylon this thread will cover a lot more area of the airframe.

There are only three critical areas on this model. All three are integrated to provide a stronger structure.

1: Wing root truss within the fuselage.

2: Nacelle/pylon layout and integration of the pylon receiver to the spar(s)

3: Main landing gear retract system integration to wing truss.

Those three sections comprise the strength of this model when in flight and during a landing. Aside from having 4 individual
fuselage sections, they must function as a single "compliant" structure. Compliant to force lifting, pulling wing forward and
compliant to right angle force exerted on outrigger and mains at touchdown...:^)

Everything else on this model is a piece of cake! Well the canopy took about an hour to find, but the rest is off the shelf
and simple. Flight is not the issue, landing is "the" issue!

Designing a model does not begin with a pencil, ruler, T-square, copier, and a calculator. This B-47 project began in 1983
at the first Southwest Ducted Fan Fly-In conducted in Lulling, Tx. What you see now is the collection of answers to 100's
of questions which had to be answered prior to my picking up the pencil, ruler, T-square, copier, and calculator.



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Old 02-14-2010, 03:28 PM   #83
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Default Designing Base Premise...

I suppose I should have restated this before now to offset whatever impatience which might be creeping into a thread follower.

Process is really very simple:

1: Collect photographic documentation ( TONS OF IT ).
2: Index your photographic documentation (By airframe section).
3: Search for multiple view drawings (No fewer than six).

Now the easy part....search through all the photo documentation until you find photos to validate everything shown on the
multiple view drawings. Then mean all of multiple view drawings into a single composite multiple view from which to begin model
design.

After meaning all the information...photos and drawings...find the one most complex/vulnerable area on the design and begin
working out the triangles comprising the model..."from that single point". After all, the structure is nothing more than a series
of triangles.

The issue with the B-47 was fit of the StuMax 110-52 either as a bi-focated inlet and exhaust or positioned to one side of the
inboard nacelle. I eventually settled on bi-focated inlet and exhaust from a centerline position.


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Old 02-15-2010, 03:23 PM   #84
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Default The Skinny On Swept Wings...

Because Sam rapidly approaches the point where our "twin" wing spars intersect our flaps I thought I would address a tapered swept
wing and how I "plan" to deal with strength issues way out there at the far reaches of our B-47's universe.

I thought I would find a better description of swept wing technology on Wikipedia. I found one which should make it easier to understand
my fuss to assure our flight dynamics are managable all the way to the ground. I have entered my comments aka opinion within the
description in this color.

Please let me know if you feel the description fails to explain it properly.

When a swept wing travels at high speed (as it increases speed), the airflow has little time to react and simply flows over the wing almost
straight from front to back. At lower speeds (as speed decreases), the air does have time to react, and is pushed spanwise by the angled
leading edge, outward towards the wing tip.

At the wing root, by the fuselage, this has little noticeable effect, but as one moves towards the wingtip the airflow is pushed spanwise
(at right angles) not only by the leading edge, but the spanwise moving air beside it. At the tip the airflow is moving along the wing instead
of over it, a problem known as spanwise flow. This is more or less an eddy flow.

The lift from a wing is generated by the airflow over it from front to rear. As an increasing amount travels spanwise, the relative amount
flowing front to rear is reduced, leading to a loss of lift. Since the spanwise flow increases towards the wing tips, the lift at the tips drops
off before the lift from the root.


Normally this is not much of a problem, but as the plane slows for landing the velocity of air at the wingtips can actually drop below the
stall point even at aircraft speeds where stalls should not occur.

Since the tip is swept to the rear of the center of lift, the net lift of the wing as a whole moves forward. This creates a nose-up pressure
on the aircraft. If this is not corrected by the pilot it causes the plane to pitch up, leading to more of the wing stalling, leading to more pitch
up, and so on. This problem came to be known as the Sabre dance in reference to the number of North American F-86 Sabres that crashed
on landing as a result.

The solution to this problem took on many forms. One was the addition of a fin known as a wing fence on the upper surface of the wing to
redirect the flow to the rear (see the MiG-15 as an example.) Note, the small wing fence extension of the inboard pylon over the leading edge
which serves as a partial wing fence on the B-47.

The swept wing also has several more problems. One is that for any given length of wing, the actual span from tip-to-tip is shorter than the
same wing that is not swept. Low speed drag is strongly correlated with the aspect ratio, the span compared to chord, so a swept wing
always has more drag at lower speeds. On the B-47 the combination of aspect ratio and the angle of attack (wingtip incidence) serves to
offset this effect. To see the incidence difference from root to tip I insert my datum line illustration posted previously.


In the above illustration the root incidence (datum) line is RED and the tip incidence (datum) line is BLUE.



Another concern is the torque applied by the wing to the fuselage, as much of the wing's lift lies behind the point where the wing root
connects to the plane. Finally, while it is fairly easy to run the main spars of the wing right through the fuselage in a straight wing design
with the use of a single continuous piece of metal, this is not possible on the swept wing because the spars will meet at an angle.

In addition to the swept wing effect fore and aft to the spar, the B-47's wing has droop designed into it. The technical name for a wing
with its mean tip line lower than its mean root line is anhedral.

The incidence differential between the wing tip and root change radically. The wing trailing edge "outboard of the inboard pylon"
rises to a point where the wingtip incidence is almost equal to the nose to tail datum line as the velocity of air across the B-47's wing
increases.

These photographs serve to provide 1:1 documentation for what I describe:





If you have been reading this thread since its beginning...we have now come full circle, back to where I was when I decided to design
and build a B-47E-IV. That would be after George Maiorana's Tu-95 rolled down Muncie's X-pad and rotated.

The Tu-95 and the B-47E-IV have exactly the same wing issue. If you have not watched the video on ScaleAero.com wherein I show
George's wing tip behavior between start of and completion of his takeoff....you are invited to watch closely as the wingtip lifts at
approximatedly 100 ft of roll down the runway... :^) This with the outboard wing flex mechanism locked...

http://004edc4.netsolhost.com/FliteM...d%20Flight.wmv

Click on the right hand side to increase the image to full screen... ;^)



George had a flexible wingtip mechanism built into his Tu-95. I kept saying I feared he would invoke the same issue which haunted the B-47
wherein the wing outboard of the inboard nacelle would oscilate 180 degrees out from the opposite wing....aka "flap".

My badgering paid off when George locked the wing warp spring mechanism preventing it from letting the wing rise another three inches...
The natural (unassisted) rise of the Tu-95 is almost four inches on George's model ! ! !



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Old 02-16-2010, 03:59 AM   #85
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Default Wing Dinging My Way Along...

This evening has been productive, I slam dunked Sam with spar box and spar positions fore and aft plus spar blade insert and wing
trusses in fuselage.

Sam will be sending digital images of the flap mock-up for posting in this thread. Its being laid out on his largest glass covered bench.
The mock up is a wee overwhelming at 1/10.2 when you consider the mock up is only 25% of the wing area .

Here's a peek at an illustration of the layout...no this is not a measured technical layout it is for reference and the dims shown will
probably change as we begin working in each section.


Ignore this spar location as the final wing config is completely different. Internal diamond truss is detailed later.


To view an enlarged image of the above click thumbnail beneath text below.

Wing spar boxes are red with green spar blade inserts. Blade inserts are long enough to extend from each wing spar box into fuselage
wing trusses. Diamond shaped trusses (inside and outside) with dovetailed sides are CA gel'd then laminated with carbon fiber vail.

The blue center and cross lines within the trusses represent the two (2) truss inserts, one (1) vertical and one (1) horizonal. Each is
roughly 150% of the inner and outer truss length, with slits cut 52% their length down their center. Each slit is equal to thickness of
the insert so each can slide into the other at right angles to triangulate and unitize the two trusses into a single structure. Insert extends
aft into adjacent fuselage diamond section where it is laminated with CA gel and carbon fiber vail.

Inboard engine nacelle pylon box has slits along its top aligned with ends of front and rear spar boxes. Pylon forms end of each box. Saw
cuts in the foam wing are cut to receive spar boxes and pylon blade box as an assembled carbon fiber vail laminated unit. Wing tapered
leading edge is laminated hot wired foam epoxied to the squared foam wing edge.

As stated earlier there are as many more cross sections yet-to-be-added to the above general layout.






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Old 02-16-2010, 02:58 PM   #86
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Default Schubeler DS-94-DIA HDT, Opinions....Please

Does anyone own a Schubeler DS-94-DIA HDT?

It would be interesting to hear from a Schubeler DS-94-DIA HDT user. The majority of Stu Maxwell's 110-52 customers are in Australia.
I find only one 110-52 twin, an F-15. The F-15 video translated into pedal to the metal until the wattage dimished...then land... :^(

Considering Schubeler appears to provide a very high ROI to its users; I would like to hear from someone in Schubeler's arena. Schubeler
DS-94-DIA HDT is a tractor.

Opinions...............please...:^)





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Old 02-17-2010, 09:13 PM   #87
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Default Getting Geared Up

Front main has to be recessed into the truss diamonds to permit strut to sit in retract notch on fuselage bottom.




Obviously the lift of the front gear will have to be increased as referenced previously. The true scale tire diameter would be 5" diameter,
however there was considerable compression of the 36" width tire under a little more than scale weight on the 1:1. I will probably use
pairs of 4.5" diameter tires on each of the two mains. A Robart braking system will be mounted to the rear pair.

I solicited the assistance of Jim Diamond, web master of the B-47 Association to learn the exact tire diameter. Jim replied quickly and
provided an education in what, where, and why they utilized the tire shared with KC-97's and B-52's. Braking system evolution changed
the wheel composition but the tires remained identical.

Below is Jim's response to my inquiry in its entirity:


Ed,

The tire diameter was 56"X36" and they were either 32 or 36 ply rating. Tire pressure was normally 150-175 PSI depending on the aircraft
fuel load. When fully loaded with fuel and weapon we had to make sure the tires were 175 PSI or they would heat up on take-off. The tires
originally were of the inner tube type. However in the early 1960s they became tubeless.

The wheel was forged as a two part or split wheel as the tire was too stiff to slide over a wheel flange and it was too unsafe to have a
flange and ring arrangement like trucks have. The tire was placed on top of one wheel half and the other half was placed on top of the
tire and after a couple bolts were used to hold the sides together the tire was stood up and the bolts were all tightened and torqued.

Then the tire was placed in a cage made of 1/4 in. steel slats and aired up. There was a groove made on the inside of each wheel half
and we placed a large rubber "O" ring in the groove so that when the two halves were bolted together the seal mashed together to seal
the two halves. Another fact was the KC-97, the B-47 and the B-52 all had the same tire size, the ply rating was the only difference.

The 36 ply rating had to be used on the B-52 and the 24 ply rating was only used on the KC-97. The B-47 used either one that was available.
Of course the three planes had different wheels due to the braking systems. The reason why I know these points was because I was shop
chief of an Aero-Repair shop at RAF Brize Norton and the tire shop was part of my shop.

I know this may be a whole lot more information than you wanted, but never ask an old timer a simple question and expect a brief answer...!

Jim Diamond
www.b-47.com



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Old 02-18-2010, 06:51 PM   #88
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Default To Schub Or Stu...Watt-R Your Thoughts ?

Schubeler Tractor Inlet:


StuMax Pusher Inlet:


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Old 02-19-2010, 06:46 AM   #89
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Default An ESCI Finally Got Scratched


I finally found another ESCI (Italiari) F-104 cockpit kit on eBay and won it. I already had the one shown above that will be altered and
painted as it should be...including new colors for the pilot, sans sun shield.


Sam is going to need a pair of these as well. If you or someone you know has a pair (2) and want to sell them send me a pm or email.

The left side of the cockpit tub will be sawed off, head-up display, head rest with overhead face shield rings, canopy breaker block
are removed, and new sun shields made for pilot and co-pilot's instrument panels.


Below is the view from below the pilot and co-pilot as observed from the red tinted walkway above.


Note the instruments to the left of the pilot and co-pilot across on the isle side of the fuselage. A few of these are shown below.



In later configurations of the B-47 there were as many as five crew with two of these in little more than jump seats along side the
pilot and co-pilot.... After take off they would position themselves in what was the bomb bay and now an ECM electronic counter
measures sending or receiving control compartment in the USAF and U.S. Navy B-47's.

Back in the day...huge vacuum tube powered detection equipment mandated two aircraft, a sending and a receiving airframe, to
achieve the desired mission results.


Below is the "WB Weather" version...as described earlier. Their task of monitoring "particulate" migration in an ongoing (aka daily)
effort to calculate best practices "location" for aircraft with a special delivery item... This is more or less an early version of realtime
computing for JIT delivery.

Pilot's Throttle Panel:



Right hand side will have a from scratch Plasti-Strut or Evergreen throttle management quad and other eye candy items but for the
most part its close enough when observed from 15 ft away.

Co-pilot cockpit has instruments behind as well. The co-pilot seat rotated to the rear permitting a radar operated pair of 20mm cannon
to be managed. The co-pilot's left cockpit tub will be cut off permitting instruments above the walkway below to be seen along the left
side under the canopy.


If you are following this thread and want to dulicate the build you will need the following two images as well.




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Old 02-19-2010, 07:57 PM   #90
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Default Wing, A Flexing Condition


Reducing the spar length to permit the afore mentioned B-47 wing flex of 3" to 4" is something I
have been working on since beginning. Below is George's Tu-95 spar arrangement. It terminates
at the centerline of the outboard nacelle. The flap is split inboard and outboard along this line.

George's Tu-95 w/s is 108" with a root of 18" and tip of 6". Our B-47 w/s is 137" with a root of 21.6
and tip of 8". this equates to a 30% meaned area differential. The Tu-95 weighs in at 38#~39#. My
B-47 is targeting 38#~39#.

There is a modified leading edge to trailing edge box just outside of the parting line. The flexing
mechanism is locked out to perclude oscillation leading to flapping. He built in but never unlocked
the sprung tensioner shown below.


Just outside the parting point down the center of the outboard nacelle the outboard section has a
modified box from leading to trailing edge to support the sprung carbon fiber rod. As stated, George
never unlocked it to flex...it was not necessary to achieve proper flexing as shown in the earlier video.

The outboard portion of George's wing, the portion with the greatest flex represents 53% of each wing
section. The carbon fiber rods embedded in the outboard wing portions is inserted into a spar box with
greater vertical travel than its slip tolerence width.




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Old 02-20-2010, 03:00 AM   #91
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Default Spar Termination

Below is the 02/19/2010 wing illustration showing spars terminated short of the wingtip enabling wing flex. One piece tapered foam
leading edge is backed by 3/16 balsa. The flap and aileron insets and perimeter are laminated with balsa and wing, flap, and ailerons
trailing edge is small diameter C/F rod.



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Old 02-24-2010, 01:43 PM   #92
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Default B-47E-IV Inboard Nacelles

Our inboard nacelle is being redrawn to accommodate the electric outrigger retract and tire.
A:



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Old 02-24-2010, 04:06 PM   #93
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Default Why No Schub or Stu?

OK, I have to ask. Why are there no other StuMax or Schubeler projects within WattFlyer?



This is the nacelle inlet bifurcation to the fan face.


This is the blade with StuMax dims plugged in from my original nacelle shape. Rearward exhaust portion of nacelle is yet to be added.
The pylon blade shape must be extended rearward and reworked so that it can accommodate retract air system, data loggng, batteries,
ESC, and other internal components.

12 initial internal shapes are "released" from foam, each with at least one flat side to facilitate mounting to a hot wire fixture. Internal
cavity templates will permit releasing the proper ducting and other spaces for all internal components when hot wired.







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Old 02-26-2010, 02:05 PM   #94
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Default Finally Resolved Which EDF To Use

First, I feel I need to reflect on the timeline for this and the last post. This is important to understand my frustration in not having
received a reply to inquiries to an EDF manufacturer who's product was considered for these two B-47's. Inquiries were made using the
manufacturer's own web site info pathway.

Below is what I resolved after an excellent conversation with Bob Pannell of Florence, KY (UPS DC-10 owner shown in March issue of
AMA's Model Aviation).


Bob's model will probably have its first successful flight within the next two or three weeks when the weather settles down. From what
he said it could take that long to clear the snow when he returns home after his week stay here in Houston.

The initial take off experience was less than satisfactory. Bob's CG was far aft of where it should have been. This resulted in a takeoff
with the nose popping early...followed by an abrupt and unexpected "loop".

Bob regained his composure and pushed his elevator forward...resulting in the fabulous save of his pride and joy. Damage to rear of the
fuselage has now been repaired.

Bob bought a pair of Schubeler EDF (older version...not the 94) after what appears to be an extended effort to get them to respond to
him as well. I found that Bob's EDF are focused on dynamic thrust. However listening to his description of power observed during his
initial takeoff, his opinion is power is not an issue.

We discussed Jason Noll's witness of minimum throttle requirements after takeoff with an airframe virtually the same size and weight as
ours. After watching any of the YouTube video of Jason's flights it serves witness to how this size EDF model can provide the duration
desired for competitive purposes.

I am satisfied with Sam's and my choice of Stu Maxwell's 110-52 with 12s 7400's for our B-47's.



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Old 02-26-2010, 02:16 PM   #95
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Default

Ed - the 10 looks amazing saw it in MA this month! How much does it weigh?

It reminds me of Keith Sparks beautiful 757... He is a mechanic for AA - and yes his is all foam. He is a true master.

Here is a pic of the '75 and Super 80 he has done (it is a pusher).

Mike


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Old 02-26-2010, 04:07 PM   #96
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Default DC-10 Weight

Originally Posted by rcers View Post
Ed - The 10 looks amazing saw it in MA this month! How much does it weigh? Mike - Bob Pannell said his
model weighed 39#...pre-crash. I assume it will pick up additional
weight post crash repairs...aft of CG, of all places.

It reminds me of Keith Sparks beautiful 757... He is a mechanic for AA - and yes his is all foam. He is a true master. Here is a pic of
the '75 and Super 80 he has done (it is a pusher) Yes, I know Keith. Keith probably has more electric scale airtime than anyone
else in the State Of Texas.
Mike
I just got off the phone talking with Fred Baldwin of Dyn-E-Max. He was kind enough to follow up on my inquiry. Fred repackages
the Dynamax with various electric motors. Fred is milling Tommy's hub to accommodate multiple motors and cuts Tommy's blade set
down to accommodate smaller requirements.

Fred is focused on 1:1 applications in the drone and para-glider market. He said he is working with as many as twelve clients already
flying in the loiter duty station applications.


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Old 02-26-2010, 04:21 PM   #97
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Default

great job you are doing. If I may comment with a couple of items, when refueling and there was a disconnect, the windshield wipers came on to remove fuel from the w/s. The chutethat was used on approach was used to keep the J-47 engs spooled up in case of a go around. the j 47s were axiel flow and were slow to spool up. The next item was aileron reversal at hi speed. for a left turn you turned the wheel rt.Example, as the left aileron came up it twisted the wing and the leading edge came up and you were making a rt turn instead of a left. There were many B-47 lost do to turbine wheel failure in flight. There were problems with losing an outboard eng on t/o and not being able to apply opposite aileron and rudder quickly enough.
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Old 02-26-2010, 06:57 PM   #98
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Default Legacied 1:1 Traits

Jim,

Glad there is not much 1:1 legacied into my model except the landing issue illustrated earlier.


As we move closer to construction the airframe AUW keeps being reduced. With each AUW reduction it improves our approach speed
making it more easily digestable. Approach speed is the greatest concern on this airframe because it has to hit the threashold X...level.

I basically trade off fuselage diameter for additional wing area compared to Jason's airframe so his approach video reduces my concern.
Aside from his being effected by the tall pines and cross wind during approach it simply settled in carryng 65% to 70% throttle. See for
yourself click play to watch the video of his flight at Mac's event.


Since we will be carrying about 40% greater battery capacity and at least 20% more power during the approach I anticipate absolutely
no issue with respect to my two flight plans.


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Old 02-27-2010, 09:28 PM   #99
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Default StuMax or Schubeler...Which Did I Decide To Use?

Can you guess which EDF was chosen?...StuMax 110-52 or the Schubeler DHT-94 Below is video of both.

The first is a replay of the Boeing 767 with Schubeler 94's and the second is a Stumax 110-52 with 12s 7400's in an F9F Panther in
Australia. Compare the two and post your preference... ;^)

Schubeler:

StuMax:


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Old 02-27-2010, 11:38 PM   #100
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Default

I like em both. But the airliner motors get my vote

THE B-2 Worlds most expensive airplane.
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