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Trainer Master, sort of.

Old 06-06-2007, 04:30 PM
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pd1
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Default Trainer Master, sort of.

I didn't locate any plans, and I decided to start building from memory.
I was tempted to buy a kit, but I had all the ribs, and I was going to change the fuse structure anyway, so it's head down and plow ahead.

Got the wing done, only changes from original is I used 1/16 sheet instead of 3/32 sheet on wings.
Oh, and I installed a dowell for wing hold down, and filled the rear for bolt holes.

Started plans of fuse, from memory, had a couple of former halves just laying around.

Made the box locs and dry fit the formers, waiting for glue to dry for the rear fuse sides to box locs now. I'm using 3/16 for the boxes instead of the 3/8. I'm also using 3/32 for the sides instead of 1/8.

The plane is built like a tank anyway.

This plane will vary from the original so it won't be truly "vintage", but some of the parts are 35 to 40 years old, that's got to count for something.

If anyone wants to post pictures of your Trainermasters, please post them here.
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Old 06-07-2007, 08:05 PM
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Not that anyone is reading this stuff, but here's a few more pictures.

I was missing one former and I had to plot one out for the rear of the plane.

Now I remember why I don't like lofting stringer locations.

Motor mount drilled for E-Flite 25. Motor was looking for a home.

The wing has a couple of coats of dope, and is ready for silk.

This time I'm going to remove the plans before I cover the wing.
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Old 06-09-2007, 01:28 PM
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The wing is now mounted, nose gear mount is also in.
Finished the nose sheeting, still have to cut out the cockpits.

I'm going to add blocks to the nose to fair the fuselage to a spinner.
Funny thing is, I don't like carving and sanding.

In the bottom shot of the fuselage, the fuselage looks bowed.
It's not, it's just something the camera angle did.

If anyone knows where I can buy a canopy please let me know.

Since I'm not using original plans, and my plane may vary in dimensions,
I should probably should change the name, something similar but different.
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Old 06-11-2007, 01:33 AM
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Acouple of shots of the nose shaped, and on the gear.
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Old 06-11-2007, 02:04 AM
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Great work pd1, I'm not familiar with the plane you are building but you have to love a balsa build. It kind of has an Astro Hog look...but not really I guess. What is the wingspan and estimated AUW? What are you going to power it with?
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Old 06-11-2007, 03:23 AM
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SJ, Here's a couple of shots of two of the Trainermasters I had.
Old ones about 5 pounds.
The one for the record was 4.25 pounds.
With a .60 on it.

This one will be powered by an E-Flite 25
Wingspan 54 inches, estimated weight 3 pounds.

Right now the fuse weighs 7.5 ounces without gear and the wing is 10.5 ounces.
Wing, fuse, gear, wheels, and motor weight 1 pound 12 ounces.

I do like balsa, but balsa doesn't seem to like me.
I'm developing a sensitivity to balsa dust, again.

This will most likely be my last balsa build for a few weeks.

Every five or six planes this happens to me.
Time to build my GWS kits.
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Old 06-11-2007, 03:29 AM
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Sweet. Looking forward to seeing this one come together. What do you use for covering?

The last plane I covered was a Four Star 60 and I used Monokote. Worked great and came out nice but it's to heavy to use on the small electric I'm building now.
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Old 06-11-2007, 03:45 AM
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Monocote is my last coice for covering.
I like Ultra cote and Microlite.

My last plane the Mini Taurus was Ultracote.

The Sidewinder delta before that was pieces of Monocote that were left overs.
It reminded me why I like the other coverings.
Sorry for the rant.

I'm going to cover this one with silk and dope.
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Old 06-11-2007, 04:00 AM
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Excellent choice, I don't know why I assumed iron on.
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Old 06-11-2007, 06:29 PM
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Originally Posted by smokings View Post
Excellent choice, I don't know why I assumed iron on.
SJ, I didn't see any assumptions in your question.

I saw a perfectly valid question, I just ranted on about Money cote.
Sometimes I do that, it's uncontrollable.
Old age you know.

My airplanes have been covered with plastic film lately.
My old glow planes didn't last that long, it seemed the more you flew the faster they got oil soaked.

Since the electric last so much longer, and never get oil soaked, I think I'd like to go back to silk and dope for finishes.
I think the electrics are worth the extra effort.
Well, some of them anyway.

I found a place that has good prices for silk, but butyrate dope is another matter.
I just ordered a 5 gal can of butyrate, $156.
$87 for shipping.
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Old 06-11-2007, 09:10 PM
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Checked the decalage and glued the tail on.
Going to try and get a canopy tomorrow so I can cut the cockpit holes out.
Have to make the control surfaces next.
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Old 06-12-2007, 09:25 PM
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Ok, the structure is finished, and I made the control surfaces.

Couldn't get a Trainermaster canopy, but I found an Aeromaster canopy I can cut down if I want.

I ordered a canopy for a Great Planes Sportster, maybe that will fit and look good?

Structure weight,fuse, tail, wing, gear, wheels and motor and prop.

2 pounds 2 ounces.

Now to start the covering.
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Old 06-12-2007, 10:12 PM
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pd1
Great looking plane and good job on the whole thread. What is the specific reason for not liking monokote?
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Old 06-12-2007, 10:16 PM
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Originally Posted by Cowboy View Post
pd1
Great looking plane and good job on the whole thread. What is the specific reason for not liking monokote?
Thanks, cowboy.

Mono cote works at a higher temperature than the other coverings, I burn my fingers stretching it around wingtips and the nose of planes.

Ultra cote seals at a lower temperature and seems to shrink a little more, so a wingtip only needs gentle stretching and edge sealing.
Then hit it with a heat gun and it shrinks, and my fingers aren't there.

It's also a little easier to match the colors of Ultracoat.
Here's a shot of another of my planes.
The red on the cheek cowls is Ultracoat spray, it matches the red Ultra coat covering pretty good,

Paul
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Old 06-12-2007, 10:26 PM
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Ok, thanks.
I just haven't tried that many differant brands
and I am always open to better products and
new ways of doing things. Thanks for the answer.
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Old 06-13-2007, 12:43 AM
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It's looking good Paul. Have you ever made your own cowl? I'm trying to figure out what I want to do on the cowl of my Wasp. If I would have had the foresight I think I would have ran my sides further forward like on your TM.
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Old 06-13-2007, 01:31 AM
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SJ, Yes I've made a few cowls. I just looked at your thread.
I apologize, I haven't been looking at most of the sites.

I'm not familiar with the Wasp, what type of cowl do you want to make?

You can always add 1/4 balsa sheet to the sides and bottom then round it off.

Or do you want to go fancier?

I saw a post, and tried this myself.
It works.

If you make a plug in the shape of the nose.
You can use balsa or pine.

Then put a plastic drinking cup over the plug and heat the cup with a heat gun.
The plastic cup will melt and take the shape of the plug.

Another way is to shape a plug using foam and layer light weight cloth over the plug and coat it with epoxy.

When hard, melt the foam out with thinner or some other solvent.

If you decide to try either of these ,I can supply you with more details.

By the way your build looks very nice, I'll have to investigate a little more.

It's nice to see others building with balsa.
I like foam, just not for everything.

Paul

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Old 06-13-2007, 01:49 AM
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Thanks Paul, good info. I think I may try the fiberglass cowl. The plans call for drilling a hole through a balsa block and mounting a speed 400 with shims and carving the block to shape. I don't mind using an inrunner to do that method but I don't want heat issues. I think I would feel more comfortable with an open cowl and air flowing around my motor.
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Old 06-13-2007, 02:00 AM
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Let me know if you need anything.
Paul
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Old 06-13-2007, 03:54 AM
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Hi pd1,

Great looking airplane! I recognize that little red an white job

Boy you do nice work! and from memory... Looks like it will be a great flyer too. Thanks for sharing!

Franny
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Old 06-13-2007, 01:35 PM
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Originally Posted by Franny View Post
Hi pd1,

Great looking airplane! I recognize that little red an white job

Boy you do nice work! and from memory... Looks like it will be a great flyer too. Thanks for sharing!

Franny
Franny, Did you get your red and yellow one flying yet?

What were your power problems?

Paul
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Old 06-13-2007, 07:08 PM
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Hi Paul, I sent you a PM so as to not hijack your thread...

What color scheme are you thinking of?

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Old 06-13-2007, 11:35 PM
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Hi Franny, I love off topic subjects.

I started covering with silk.

Here's the sequence.

1. The balsa has to have a couple of coats of dope first.
To seal the pores.
The silk won't "catch and run" as easily.
Also acts as adhesive when you apply the silk.

2. Silk has a grain to the weave,you want to align the grain lengthwise on the wing.
If you don't the silk will pull in between the ribs and look a little "funny".

3.The silk is cut to the approximate shape, leaving a small overhang.

4. The silk is placed over the area to be covered.

5. The silk is then sprayed with water, I use a small atomizer.
Get the silk completely soaked.

6. Gently pull the wrinkles out, use both hands on either side and pull apart.
Try not to distort the weave.

7. When the wrinkles are out, and the silk is taut dope around the edges to adhere the silk to the wing.

8. When doping let some of the dope coat the edges to be cut off.
When the dope has dried, the silk will cut easier and cleaner where the dope has hardened.

9. Only dope enough to adhere the silk, as the dope drys, it will "blush" or turn white.
This is from humidity, from the water you sprayed.
Later thinned coats will get rid of the "blush".

10. When the water has dried, trim the edges and coat the edges with dope to hold them down.

11. After it has completely dried, use some VERY thin dope, about 80 to 90 per cent thinned, to fill the weave.

12. I like to do all the ribs and structure and let it dry, before trying the open areas

13, The dope that is so thinned will drip through and puddle on the other side, but it is mostly thinner, it will evaporate.
You can reduce drip through by holding the surface vertical and not using excessive amounts of dope.
It usually takes 4 or 5 coats to seal the open areas.

14. Once the open areas are sealed you can go back to less thinned dope.

15. After the covered section starts to shine, wet or dry sand with 300 to 400 grit paper, then coat and sand alternately until you have the finish you desire.
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Old 06-14-2007, 04:21 AM
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So I am trying to remember I don't think I have ever seen a silk and dope model in person. I am going to assume that it is light as paper right? I think I may try this on my wasp. How durable is it? Looks great.
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Old 06-14-2007, 05:20 AM
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Hi Paul,

That is a great set of instructions! I used to use silkspan on my CL models growing up. When I started on the larger RC airplanes, I switched over to Monokote, but I think the silkspan was actually easier even if it did take a bit longer. What with birds in the house, I am pretty relegated to iron-ons but I was thinking I might try it in the DVIII - I will have to paint that sheeted wing anyway. I have been using Ultracote lately and find it to be fabulous! Goes on like "butta". I used fabric coverite on my Taube and that rocks too. Really nice. Then I had to do some repairs on the Falcon which was Monokoted 20 years ago and remembered just how difficult that stuff is to work with. If it wasn't for the color match I would have used something else. It is amazing how many different materials we have to choose from and how different they are.

How do you think your final weight compares to something like Ora/Ultracote?

Franny
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