Scratch and Kit Built Aircraft Discuss and share your scratch built or kit built aircraft as well as building techniques, methods, mediums and resources.

Finishing a GWS -190

Old 07-23-2007, 04:32 PM
  #1  
pd1
Still Learning
Thread Starter
 
pd1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: North of Boston
Posts: 4,098
Default Finishing a GWS -190

I recently started a GWS-190.
I was going to start a build thread on the construction but it is so easy to assemble that I'm just going directly to finishing.

crxmanpat has a thread on the construction of the GWS P-40, the construction is very similar and he does a good job on the thread.


I'm no expert at finishing foam, I've only done three others.

The real expert is JMorgan, he post here and RCGroups.
He's forgotten more than I'll know.

So the point of this thread is to document what I have done, good or bad, and maybe others will post their own experiences with finishing these planes.

Maybe with the help of others we might come out with an information base on what works, and how well it works.

My first foam paint job:

Fan Tastic models T-6. I used Testors spray paints in the rattle cans.

From 5 feet it looks pretty good. The paint went on easy and shines well.

Up close you can still see the pattern of the beads of foam.

There is a little bleeding under the tape with the Testors paint unless you use a high stick tape.
Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version

Name:	t6w.jpg
Views:	786
Size:	67.5 KB
ID:	36136  

Last edited by pd1; 07-23-2007 at 05:07 PM.
pd1 is offline  
Old 07-23-2007, 04:41 PM
  #2  
pd1
Still Learning
Thread Starter
 
pd1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: North of Boston
Posts: 4,098
Default Gws-109

The next plane is the GWS 109. n this one I filled the panel lines with pre mixed spackle. Then a couple coats of MinWax, water based polyurethane.

Next was Apple Crate acrylic artist paints. The ones for 0.49 at Wall Mart.

The MinWax helped to seal the beads of foam together and there was less lifting of the paint when removing tape.

The acrylic paint went on fine, I reduced the paint to spray with an airbrush.
I used auto windshield washer fluid. It thinned the paint and it seemed to help it flow better.

After the color I used another coat of MinWax to restore the shine.

The yellow was left over Testors from the T-6.

Again a couple of feet away it looks pretty good, over the last year the paint has shrunk and the lines between the foam beads are showing in a few places.

If you use MinWax as the top coat, some self stick decals have trouble holding to the finish.

I would recommend using Testors clear as a top coat if you plan on using decals.
Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version

Name:	109-frt.jpg
Views:	817
Size:	91.0 KB
ID:	36137   Click image for larger version

Name:	lftfrt.jpg
Views:	876
Size:	102.1 KB
ID:	36138   Click image for larger version

Name:	109r.jpg
Views:	969
Size:	91.2 KB
ID:	36139  

Last edited by pd1; 07-23-2007 at 05:08 PM.
pd1 is offline  
Old 07-23-2007, 04:45 PM
  #3  
Grasshopper
Some Assembly Required
 
Grasshopper's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Nashville, TN
Posts: 12,070
Default

Those look great Paul. Now I'm getting anxious to re do my P-47. On your 109, I can see panel lines. Are they the original molded lines or did you paint them on? They look good.
Grasshopper is offline  
Old 07-23-2007, 04:51 PM
  #4  
pd1
Still Learning
Thread Starter
 
pd1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: North of Boston
Posts: 4,098
Default GWS Corsair

My third plane was the F4U.

Filled the panel lines with the pre mixed spackle, and a coat of MinWax as in the 109.

Then I covered the whole plane with silkspan.
I applied the silkspan with the minWax. I had to use at least two coats of MinWax to fill the grain in the silkspan.

Then I finished with Testors red and white.

The white bled under the tape wherever I didn't have a real smooth finish.

The tape does not pull up foam beads on removal with this method.

After a year, the plane shows a hint of foam beads in only a few places.

This could be a good base for a fine finish, with a few more coats of MinWax.
Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version

Name:	corsair-left.jpg
Views:	623
Size:	63.1 KB
ID:	36140   Click image for larger version

Name:	corsairtopl.jpg
Views:	697
Size:	83.8 KB
ID:	36141   Click image for larger version

Name:	frtrtcorsair.jpg
Views:	692
Size:	70.4 KB
ID:	36142  

Last edited by pd1; 07-23-2007 at 05:08 PM.
pd1 is offline  
Old 07-23-2007, 04:59 PM
  #5  
alienx
Super Contributor
 
alienx's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Secaucus, NJ
Posts: 1,894
Default

I still like that Corsair (although the 109 is very nice too!). Paul, do you track your weights? I'm always curious what the planes weigh when people load them up with layers of glass and polycrylic. I have a fully covered and painted plane somewhere in my future! That FW is going to be nice I'm sure!
alienx is offline  
Old 07-23-2007, 05:06 PM
  #6  
Grasshopper
Some Assembly Required
 
Grasshopper's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Nashville, TN
Posts: 12,070
Default

Originally Posted by alienx View Post
I still like that Corsair (although the 109 is very nice too!). Paul, do you track your weights? I'm always curious what the planes weigh when people load them up with layers of glass and polycrylic. I have a fully covered and painted plane somewhere in my future! That FW is going to be nice I'm sure!
I was wondering the same thing about the weight Andy. I've been asking Paul questions via PMs over the past week or so about covering since he does such a nice job. I'm getting ready to cover and repaint my E-Flite P-47. I weighed it before I started and will weigh it again when I'm done. It will be interesting.
Grasshopper is offline  
Old 07-23-2007, 05:06 PM
  #7  
pd1
Still Learning
Thread Starter
 
pd1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: North of Boston
Posts: 4,098
Default Gws-190

On the 109 and the Corsair I filled the panel lines with the spackle.
On the 109 I added panel lines with a silver sharpie.

On this plane I'm not going to fill the panel lines, but I'm going to cover over them.
I hope to get a subdued panel separation.

I tried some synthetic uni-directional cloth on the tail.

I don't know how the final results will look.

Here are a few pictures.
The plane has a lot of bumps on the surface, I'm sanding these off.

The plane calls for a fiberglass rod to be used for spars on the wing and stabilizer.

Don't glue these with Gorilla glue. The Gorilla glue expands and pushes them out of the slot. Much more work now to sand and fill.

The stab pictures show the filler applied around the spar.
When sanding I only sand using a block.
Also I sand until the edges are no longer sharp, when they feather, stop.

The MinWax does not have good adhesion while wet. The edges of the covering tend to lift, cuts in the fabric have to be used to help reduce this tendency.

I'm going to try some other coverings on this plane as I go. I also want to try spray primer as a filler.

I'm hoping the MinWax will keep the foam from melting if I try a lacquer based primer.
Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version

Name:	fusebumps2.jpg
Views:	809
Size:	136.6 KB
ID:	36143   Click image for larger version

Name:	bumpsoff4.jpg
Views:	964
Size:	138.0 KB
ID:	36144   Click image for larger version

Name:	stabfiller5.jpg
Views:	914
Size:	128.2 KB
ID:	36145   Click image for larger version

Name:	stabsanded6.jpg
Views:	862
Size:	124.3 KB
ID:	36146   Click image for larger version

Name:	stabcover10.jpg
Views:	865
Size:	70.1 KB
ID:	36147  

Click image for larger version

Name:	stabcover11.jpg
Views:	911
Size:	124.5 KB
ID:	36148  
pd1 is offline  
Old 07-23-2007, 05:12 PM
  #8  
pd1
Still Learning
Thread Starter
 
pd1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: North of Boston
Posts: 4,098
Default

Andy, Tom,
I did track the weight when I was doing the first ones.
I don't have the weights anymore but the planes did not gain too much weight.

If I tried for a really super finish I think they would have put on some significant weight.
But I went for a minimal finish and again they look good from a couple of feet, just not right up close.

I'm going to try to get a slightly better finish on the 190. I think the added size will allow the plane to carry more weight.

Paul
pd1 is offline  
Old 07-23-2007, 05:13 PM
  #9  
alienx
Super Contributor
 
alienx's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Secaucus, NJ
Posts: 1,894
Default

Originally Posted by Grasshopper View Post
I was wondering the same thing about the weight Andy. I've been asking Paul questions via PMs over the past week or so about covering since he does such a nice job. I'm getting ready to cover and repaint my E-Flite P-47. I weighed it before I started and will weigh it again when I'm done. It will be interesting.
In my 3 foam plane experience, I have been pleasantly surprised. I've painted both my GWS planes at a cost of about 0.6 oz. each for airbrushed craft acrylic. I am still looking forward to trying some cloth a member sent me. It is lighter than my .75oz. glass, and I am hopeful it will take less minwax to fill the cloth because it has no weave like glass. Either way, one thing I discovered on my last plane was to sand the heck out of the cloth. It lessens the weave and lightens up the job. I can't wait to see your P47. Make sure to keep us fat with big pics!!

I'm sure Paul has some really nice paint scheme in mind here too, so it will be worth watching!!
alienx is offline  
Old 07-24-2007, 01:52 AM
  #10  
pd1
Still Learning
Thread Starter
 
pd1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: North of Boston
Posts: 4,098
Default

Andy, what did your Corsair weigh?
My Corsair with the landing gear, heavy Komodo motor and 1500MAH 3 cell weighs 20 ounces.
pd1 is offline  
Old 07-24-2007, 02:13 AM
  #11  
alienx
Super Contributor
 
alienx's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Secaucus, NJ
Posts: 1,894
Default

Originally Posted by pd1 View Post
Andy, what did your Corsair weigh?
My Corsair with the landing gear, heavy Komodo motor and 1500MAH 3 cell weighs 20 ounces.
16.65 oz.AUW
That's with a fair amount of craft acrylic, one or slightly more coats of polycrylic on the outside, glassed control surfaces, spackle in all the divots and channels, a rudder and two wing servos. I think I was around 16 oz. when I finsihed it the first time, but I've done 3 different ailerons set-ups and I only have 6 flights on it!:<

Mine has a 1.5 oz. 400XT, and a 3.7 oz. 3s 1300 maH or so lipo. You probably have a heavier batt and motor accounting for some of the difference. Your's is a beauty. Mine looks like a warbird. But I love it!! I can't believe Grasshopper hasn't bought a GWS yet. Especially with all the beauties they are making now.
alienx is offline  
Old 07-24-2007, 02:23 AM
  #12  
pd1
Still Learning
Thread Starter
 
pd1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: North of Boston
Posts: 4,098
Default

Andy, I should take the landing gear off to see what the gear weighs.

My battery pack is 4.4 ounces and I don't know the weight on the Komodo, it is a little heavy, but it puts out a lot of power.

We will turn Tom to GWS yet.

I've got the 262 waiting to be built and I'm waiting for the P-40.

This is how I beat a balsa dust sensitivity.
pd1 is offline  
Old 07-24-2007, 02:31 AM
  #13  
alienx
Super Contributor
 
alienx's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Secaucus, NJ
Posts: 1,894
Default

Originally Posted by pd1 View Post
Komodo, it is a little heavy, but it puts out a lot of power.
If I can figure out how to stick a TP 2100 in mine, I think I am going to put a park 450 or maybe one of those BP motors in it. I'd probably have done it already but the Park is too long for the stick. Yours must be a treat to fly with more power. I love the plane, but after flying a narrow nosed 15 oz. Spitfire, it's hard to want to take the Corsair with me to the field.

Originally Posted by pd1 View Post
We will turn Tom to GWS yet.
Maybe we shoudl stop trying to talk him into it. They are already running out of slopers!!!

Originally Posted by pd1 View Post
I'm waiting for the P-40.

This is how I beat a balsa dust sensitivity.
I can't wait to see your P40. I really love that plane. They seem to do a nicer job with each new bird. I wish they'd do a Bearcat or a Hurricane.

I'm looking forward to seeing your results. I'm sure the plane will look great!!
alienx is offline  
Old 07-24-2007, 02:37 AM
  #14  
Tinman
The Hot dog man
 
Tinman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Western Pennsylvania
Posts: 3,584
Default

You do great work PD! Very nice planes!

I wish my Spitfire came out half as nice as any of those!

Tinman is offline  
Old 07-24-2007, 03:52 AM
  #15  
Grasshopper
Some Assembly Required
 
Grasshopper's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Nashville, TN
Posts: 12,070
Default

Originally Posted by alienx View Post
16.65 oz.AUW
That's with a fair amount of craft acrylic, one or slightly more coats of polycrylic on the outside, glassed control surfaces, spackle in all the divots and channels, a rudder and two wing servos. I think I was around 16 oz. when I finsihed it the first time, but I've done 3 different ailerons set-ups and I only have 6 flights on it!:<

Mine has a 1.5 oz. 400XT, and a 3.7 oz. 3s 1300 maH or so lipo. You probably have a heavier batt and motor accounting for some of the difference. Your's is a beauty. Mine looks like a warbird. But I love it!! I can't believe Grasshopper hasn't bought a GWS yet. Especially with all the beauties they are making now.
I've been tempted many times Andy. If I didn't already have a P-38, I would have bought the GWS model. I still really like the ME-109 and corsair too.

Originally Posted by pd1 View Post
Andy, I should take the landing gear off to see what the gear weighs.

My battery pack is 4.4 ounces and I don't know the weight on the Komodo, it is a little heavy, but it puts out a lot of power.

We will turn Tom to GWS yet.

I've got the 262 waiting to be built and I'm waiting for the P-40.

This is how I beat a balsa dust sensitivity.
If I had known they were going to come out with the P-40, I probably wouldn't have bought the Ultrafly P-40. It's still sitting in the box patiently waiting.
Grasshopper is offline  
Old 07-24-2007, 02:09 PM
  #16  
pd1
Still Learning
Thread Starter
 
pd1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: North of Boston
Posts: 4,098
Default

Tom, I bought the GWS P-38 as well, it's patiently waiting it's turn.
Now I can be a little less careful with the Richmodels 38.

190 update.
The stab, elevators and rudder are covered and filled with wbpu.

I have mixed feelings about the covering material I used, it didn't stay above the panel lines, it sucked into the grooves like a second skin.

It also bubbles when coated with additional wbpu (MinWax).

I think I'll try silk on the fuselage.
pd1 is offline  
Old 07-24-2007, 02:16 PM
  #17  
alienx
Super Contributor
 
alienx's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Secaucus, NJ
Posts: 1,894
Default

Originally Posted by pd1 View Post
I have mixed feelings about the covering material I used, it didn't stay above the panel lines, it sucked into the grooves like a second skin.

It also bubbles when coated with additional wbpu (MinWax).
I think I would like the cling but I am a little worried about the bubbling. Is is lifting after the second coat goes over a dry first coat?? That doesn't sound good.
alienx is offline  
Old 07-24-2007, 03:00 PM
  #18  
pd1
Still Learning
Thread Starter
 
pd1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: North of Boston
Posts: 4,098
Default

The material is not lifting as such.

But the surface gets real rough after the second coat, like a lot of small bubbles on the surface.

Then after sanding the surface feels very slippery.
pd1 is offline  
Old 07-24-2007, 04:32 PM
  #19  
alienx
Super Contributor
 
alienx's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Secaucus, NJ
Posts: 1,894
Default

Originally Posted by pd1 View Post
The material is not lifting as such.

But the surface gets real rough after the second coat, like a lot of small bubbles on the surface.

Then after sanding the surface feels very slippery.
That sounds pretty good actually. Do you feel you need two coats? I was kind of hoping I could get away with a heavily sanded single coat the next time I try one of these build. Might keep the weight down too.
alienx is offline  
Old 07-24-2007, 06:34 PM
  #20  
pd1
Still Learning
Thread Starter
 
pd1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: North of Boston
Posts: 4,098
Default

Andy,
If you sand the surface well, you remove all the excess paint.
All that is left is what is in the weave.
And that's what you want to fill anyway.

Well that's the theory anyway.
pd1 is offline  
Old 07-25-2007, 03:17 PM
  #21  
pd1
Still Learning
Thread Starter
 
pd1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: North of Boston
Posts: 4,098
Default Newest test.

I tried a small test of two different covering materials held down with epoxy.

I applied a little 30 minute epoxy to an old stabilizer and covered part with silk.
I coated the outside of the silk with more epoxy.
I then scraped all the excess epoxy off using a business card.
And let it dry overnight.

I repeated this using a plastic covering, the same covering I used on the stabilizer with the WBPU.

The silk and epoxy came out very smooth, with very little weight gain.
I think the small tight weave of the silk helped to reduce the epoxy amount.
The epoxy seems to be no heavier than the WBPU.

A couple of spots lifted though.
I might have to be a little more careful in my application.

The plastic covering sucked down tighter than a second skin, but again the epoxy bubbled up through the pores. Just a little more sanding to do.

I don't know which was better, neither perfect, just different.
pd1 is offline  
Old 07-25-2007, 03:46 PM
  #22  
alienx
Super Contributor
 
alienx's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Secaucus, NJ
Posts: 1,894
Default

I can't wait to see the painted version!!
alienx is offline  
Old 07-25-2007, 11:51 PM
  #23  
pd1
Still Learning
Thread Starter
 
pd1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: North of Boston
Posts: 4,098
Default

I just covered half the fuselage with silk and MinWax.

The silk went on very easy and looks good.

I weighed the fuse before covering and I'll weigh it after the MinWax has fully dried.

If I can get up the nerve to try epoxy and silk on the wing I'll have something to compare to.
pd1 is offline  
Old 07-26-2007, 02:34 AM
  #24  
smokejohnson
Super Contributor
 
smokejohnson's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Tulsa
Posts: 5,687
Default

Great thread Paul. Subscribed
smokejohnson is offline  
Old 07-26-2007, 03:14 PM
  #25  
pd1
Still Learning
Thread Starter
 
pd1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: North of Boston
Posts: 4,098
Default

I weighed the fuse, only half covered.

Before covering........3.7 ounces
After covering..........4.1 ounces

I've since covered the other half, I'll weigh it again after it's fully dry.

I can't tell you how easy the WBPU works with the silk, just the easiest method so far.
And you clean up with soap and water.

So far, so good.
pd1 is offline  

Quick Reply: Finishing a GWS -190


Contact Us Archive Advertising Cookie Policy Privacy Statement Terms of Service

Copyright 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.

Page generated in 0.13319 seconds with 24 queries