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WWI planes

Old 11-04-2008, 04:11 AM
  #2851  
Saucerguy2
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He's going to enjoy this hobby, and hopefully I can rub off on him to the point he goes rather overboard with the build process, for he and his kids can use the diversion.

That jet looks cool, it looks like a fun build, I might try it out., I'm spending the evening cutting out a production run of free foam flyer So's, which are a basic twin boom pusher style foamies and one of them is for him to use as his second plane for learning ailerons. It also looks like I got a decent response from the WF ad for the gear, just formalizing the transaction now to get that end taken care of.
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Old 11-06-2008, 07:36 AM
  #2852  
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Originally Posted by SaucerGuy View Post
I agree with that statement to a point. As Fred stated, we have changed the typical building material over to foam. To take that farther, the average builder these days, at least the ones that can get over personal biases, will build planes out of what ever they can pilfer from even the most unlikely sources. This is a testament to our resourcefulness and something that should be noted by the old timers who have had experienced times where the typical building materials simply were not available. You guys started that one, we have taken it further.

This is absolutely not to say, I don't love building with traditional materials, and it's something that I'll always enjoy doing, for those birds tend to stay with me and with the revisions I tend to put into place, they last a heck of a lot longer then these mass produced birds imported from China.

The cool part about this new generation of planes pre-fabbed, the noob has one huge obstical overcame for him, a plane designed and built to fly with all of the quirks worked out from the get go. This has absolutely brought in a significant amount of new pilots to the hobby that otherwise would not have taken the time out to learn to build, then learn to build well enough to actually end up with something not only flyable, something that flies well with very little, if any skill required to build and/or assemble.

The main thing we need to show as builders is the very reason we do so in the first place. It's not only a very enjoyable, satisfying part of this hobby, we get to customize what we are building to our own personal tastes, something you can't do buying something off of the shelf. Another huge element we should stress is the fact, it's a lot easier on the pocket book. You make your own replacement parts, you build into it elements designed to handle abuse in the air and hard landings resulting in the planes lasting longer and are cheaper to maintain.

We also should never mock a new guy building his first planes, nor should we impose some benchmark stipulating that they have to make everything perfect and cover all of the anal retentive details many of us implement. Any thrown together, ugly plane built by a noob that is fun to fly in my book is worth more then a million works of art that are unflyable, well unless the unflyable plane happens to be built by a noob, then they should be commended for their efforts.

If it's any consolation, currently my favorite plane is a 4 channel conversion of a Mini Mambo built from plans, a nice vintage design that has proven itself this summer in a big way, and is a testament to the old timers.
Just wanted to keep this conversation going....lots of good thoughts!

Without the ARFs I never would have flown in the first place. I started with GWS foam planes...more kit-like than ARF in my opinion...but I got to flying in short order. I am sure this is the same for a lot of people. The more that get involved in this hobby, by whatever means the better!

Of course there are those RTF planes which are total junk...yes I bought one....

For me, from the beginning, I wanted to eventually build a WWI plane and fly it. From looking at my Dumas Spad build...I never would have flown! Those training wheels called ARFs are quite wonderful.

Builders... keep on building...and post your builds. ARFers keep on upgrading and modifying those ARFs....we all can learn!
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Old 11-06-2008, 08:07 AM
  #2853  
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Another thing to consider is that with the forests being destroyed in South America, balsa wood is going to become even harder to find and it's going to cost more. I'm not some kind of Al Gore crusader on a soap box. I'm just saying that if the environmentalists' predictions are true, we'll all have to find other materials such as foam and cardboard to build with. Maybe farming balsa wood in the U.S. would be a profitable endeavor, if it's possible.
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Old 11-06-2008, 03:43 PM
  #2854  
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Originally Posted by barmonkey View Post
Just wanted to keep this conversation going....lots of good thoughts!............................

Truely amazing, it's as if you just jumped in my head and pulled out my story. Pretty much word for word.

The only thing that keeps me from doing nothing but kits and scratch builds is time.

Thought I'd share this thread with you guys. It's a sailboat I made when I was about 20. Took me 2 years to finish...

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=864441

Nothing to do with Airplanes or WWI, but it is VERY scratch built, and doing this type of project is my absolute favorite thing to do. Just need more free time!
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Old 11-06-2008, 06:09 PM
  #2855  
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Now I have two old(new to me) kits to build this winter. Thanks the guys on here I now have the plans that were missing in the Comet Fokker Dr1 kit and a plastic piece to make a new cowl for my SE5A. I plan on making the Comet Fokker DR1 into EP R/C. The other kit is a Sterling Fokker DVII U/C that I hope to lighten some and make it EP R/C too.
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Old 11-06-2008, 06:49 PM
  #2856  
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Not sure about Comet kits, but the easy-built SE I built was much to flimsy for anything but paper covering and rubber motor. Just adding coverlite to the wings crushed them, I suspect any electric motor might have smashed it just by torque
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Old 11-06-2008, 09:08 PM
  #2857  
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Originally Posted by dbcisco View Post
Not sure about Comet kits, but the easy-built SE I built was much to flimsy for anything but paper covering and rubber motor. Just adding coverlite to the wings crushed them, I suspect any electric motor might have smashed it just by torque
This is the Superstars kit. I believe some of them have already been made into EP R/C planes. I know the Sterling Fokker DVII kit will be strong enough cause it is designed for a slimer in the nose. I just have to slim and trim the fuselage rear formers to make it lighter.
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Old 11-06-2008, 11:14 PM
  #2858  
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degreen60, how do you like the "red-line" I did for the ribs? Sloppy but easy to understand.
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Old 11-07-2008, 12:06 AM
  #2859  
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Originally Posted by Cookie View Post
degreen60, how do you like the "red-line" I did for the ribs? Sloppy but easy to understand.
I think I will build the wing as shown on the planes then add thin foam ribs on the red lines you added. That should give a strong light wing that will show rib lines in the covering.
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Old 11-07-2008, 12:09 AM
  #2860  
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Originally Posted by dbcisco View Post
Not sure about Comet kits, but the easy-built SE I built was much to flimsy for anything but paper covering and rubber motor. Just adding coverlite to the wings crushed them, I suspect any electric motor might have smashed it just by torque
I just looked at the Comet box and the Superstar kits are designed for .02 to .049 engine. They should be strong enough for an electric motor.
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Old 11-07-2008, 12:36 AM
  #2861  
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Sounds like a good idea.
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Old 11-07-2008, 12:44 AM
  #2862  
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Well Boys I was just reading the thread about the Comet kits and started thinking about motors. Here are a couple that might just work fine in either plane. Both are from Hobby King/United Hobbies. https://www.unitedhobbies.com/UNITED...Outrunner_(10g)

https://www.unitedhobbies.com/UNITED...trunner_1850Kv

Let me know what you think. Martin
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Old 11-07-2008, 06:46 AM
  #2863  
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Hello Flyers,
The Fokker Eindekker - Scratch build
It has been a little while since I put a post here but I do read this thread to keep up with news. I thought maybe I could do this article in this group while I have some time available. This will also give you some entertainment. I want to reshow my Eindekker built in Dec 2006 as I have a new video and flight vid captures of interest to show also. I want to to describe the scratch build on this historic aeroplane and some insight as to how I built this plane in reasonable amount of time and how I it went together.

This is a most amazing fun flier. It has been great from the initial 1rst maiden flight. It did picture perfect take offs and landings. It does slow rolls and scale flight loops. It even flew nice inverted. I love this plane. This is my own design from just a 3 view drawing and pictures. The decals are GWS Indoor stick on white mylar tape. The cowling is from GWS Beaver and cut to scale with aluminum foil covering. The paint on all the planes is Walmart craft paints sprayed on. Some is brushed on also. Most all the glue I use is hot glue as it grabs good with a slight flex to it. I just want you to know the possibilities that can be done with inexpensive parts that are available from GWS suppliers.

This Eindekker is Semi-scale:
The plane was made from a 3 view color page from Osprey or I think a Squadron book.It is based on the later version with 2 machine guns after 1914. I enlarged the 3 view with a picture Poster Maker program to get the size fuselage that matched the 39" wingspan. Then I used light paper to make a tracing of the blown up sides, top, and bottom to be transfered to the foam for the sides and the top/bottom views. Here is how the fuselage went together. The motor bulkhead on back to just behind the wing is pink 5/16" foam for strength. Then notched and grafted the 1/8th inch Depron from there to the tail end. The fuselage formers are 1/8" also except from the trailing edge to the forward fuselage. Control rods are CF to keep tail weight down. The firewall has a stick mount and plywood supports. The top and bottom is 1/8" Depron foan the full fuselage. Under where the wing cutouts are I used 1/8" panel held on with magnets to access the servos, etc. The wing cutout is fitted to the wing slowly shaving for a snug fit at assembly time. The pilot and top cover is held on with a dowel and magnets. The whole nose section is covered with aluminum foil that was bonded with 3M 77 contact spray.

The Wing is a GWS Indoor Stick 2 part moulded wing. If I did this again I would use the GWS Mono F Stick wing as it is stiffer and thicker. I added a 3" mid section to make it about 39" long. Joined together with pink 5/16" foam I laid it on a flat surface and with a long metal straight edge I trmmed the trailing edge scallops off in one sweep. Next I cut and glued a 1 1/2" by 1/8" Balsa trailing edge to the wing. I installed ailerons about 9" long. The wires were bent and had plastic sleaves also. The tips were shaped like the real plane also. Then I scalloped the edges. Look at the picture and you can see the leading edge has 1/8" Carbon fiber rod uncut the full legth. Under the wing is another CF rod near the old cut trailing edge. I also have another 1/8"CF rod about 20"long on the wing CG line.

This stiffener has 1/8" foam pads under it to stop wing droop as there is no dihedral. The wing was installed through the cutouts in the fuselage doing slight trim as it went through the cutouts. The rudder is 1/4" Zepron foam with a brass hinge. The elevator is 2 parts 1/8"Depron laminated over a metal home made control horn. The horn is soldered brass.

The Other parts.
I originally carved the pilot from block pink foam. The guns are dowels. The cowling is cut up from a GWS Beaver and again held on with magnets. The landing gear is standard bent 1/8"wire. It is semi-scale, right? The wheels are flat aluminum stock machined round, grooved, and thinned for a glued on "0"ring tyre.

Painting: I mainly used GWS decals. Fur main colors of Walmart craft paints. sprayed on the wingsand fuselage. I did blend 2 colors while they were wet to give fabrc stain when dry. The wing was tanned then sprayed tan then highlites with brown and reddish ocher to simulate cloth.
Motor was updated to a BP Hobbies BL2217/9 outrunner.
Propellor is APC 11X3.8 SF
Battery 11.1v 3s 1500Mah 20C Zippy Average 8-10 minute flights. 1/2 throttle for scale speed.
20amp turnigy ESC

Final thoughts.
This was a fairly quick build being slab sided. It flies good for an intermediate flier. I did have to add 1 oz of lead to the nose. Not bad. I have video of the plane below with about 56 other videos of some of my planes flying. I hope you look over some of the other planes also.
http://good-times.webshots.com/album...ost=good-times
Enjoy Your Stay.
Happy Flying
**Neons** Bob
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Old 11-07-2008, 08:45 AM
  #2864  
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neons, nice plane. Very creative on your part. Thanks for the detailed info.
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Old 11-07-2008, 11:03 AM
  #2865  
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Originally Posted by Cookie View Post
You'll also need to re-design the horizontal stabilizer to include an elevator since the kit comes as one solid "free flight" design.
This is another place I will use foam. I will cut one out of pink foam, sand to airfoil shape then cut openings in the foam leaving ribs. Hope it looks like open frame work covered. Have you flown yours yet? What motor and prop did you install? Do you know how RPM at WOT? I am looking at installing a 2410-09 motor. I think that motor will have plenty of power on 2s. I have that motor in my Wattage Camel on 6 nicads.
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Old 11-07-2008, 01:46 PM
  #2866  
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Anyone have a lanier se5a for sale


or parts?
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Old 11-07-2008, 03:09 PM
  #2867  
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Originally Posted by **neons** View Post
Hello Flyers,
The Fokker Eindekker - Scratch build
Bob, your plane looks great! Another inovative scratch build. I watched the first vid, and it sure flys nicely. Thanks for sharing it.
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Old 11-07-2008, 03:52 PM
  #2868  
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Thanks Cookie, 7car7, and others,
I want to spread some of my easy Down & Dirty builds. As you may notice I do not post a lot of info. I have been a member here since 2005 and only in the teens as far as posts go. I felt that I had to do the Eindekker post to help many newer builders see some useful tips. The plane is already 2 years old now with about 30 flights on it.

Most of my scratch built planes have some build techniques related to todays foam building. This building is totally different than the days I built balsa aircraft in the 50's and 60's. We have many new supplies around now to work with. Hard to believe I still have Aero-Gloss, Pactra paints and Testor and Ambroid glue still new and unused in my stockpile.
The ideas of change in my Eindekker build are useable to you and new builders of foam planes. I still see a combination crossover of using balsa, Lite coverings, and foam together in a build. Some of my later builds that I am doing are made from laminated blocks of foam shaped with hot wire and hollowed out like a pumkin then laminated. See the other builds in my Webshots pages listed above in the Eindekker post. The latest is my USCG Albatross HU-16 amphibian.
Happy Flying,
**Neons** Bob
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Old 11-07-2008, 04:04 PM
  #2869  
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degreen60, I haven't finished it yet. It's one of those that got framed up covered and hung up because its been frustrating trying to install the top wing where its level and with the correct angle of attack. You have to be able to remove the top and middle wing to work on the radio gear and that has been a PITA trying to get it right without adding a bunch of weight.
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Old 11-07-2008, 08:59 PM
  #2870  
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Originally Posted by Cookie View Post
You have to be able to remove the top and middle wing to work on the radio gear and that has been a PITA trying to get it right without adding a bunch of weight.
I have not started on mine yet. I am hoping that as I build the fuselage I can install a large hatch mabe from front of fuselage to trailing edge of lower wing for getting to the insides. That way I can attach the wings permanent.
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Old 11-07-2008, 11:14 PM
  #2871  
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Yes, and I should have done that but I glued the bottom wing onto the fuselage, following the instructions. The bottom wing halves are supposed to be glued onto the sides of the fuselage but you might be able to re-design and build the bottom wing so that it comes off of the bottom of the fuselage like most models. That way you can go ahead and install the top and middle wing and use the instructions to do so. You see, the instructions want you to glue EVERYTHING together, but modifying it for R/C, you have to be able to get inside to work on it. If I'm insane enough to try to modify and re-design another Comet Superstars bipe or tripe I'll make the bottom wing removable. By the way, hopefully, you have a band saw or table type jig saw because some of that wood is a PITA to cut out of it's "die-crushed" sheets.
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Old 11-15-2008, 06:17 AM
  #2872  
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Bob, that plane looks so nice.

GWS Indoor Stick = Slow Stick?
The wings look like them.
I was thinking about the same wings for an E I, forerunnner of the E III or your E IV.
The first prototype with a gun was flown by Immelmann and Boelcke:
http://www.worldwar1.com/tripwire/smtw0407.htm

Anybody tried the (original) wing warping for such a small Depron plane instead of ailerons?

Uli
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Old 11-15-2008, 06:45 AM
  #2873  
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Uli,
Thanks. Here is another person that built a scratchbuilt Eindekker. He did a nice build on it. He wants to build one with wing warping.
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=872532)

I do not at this time want to build too technical because I occaisionally push my planes into aerobatics and do not want a true scale plane because this type airplane will be some what more delicate. The wing on my version build is the small Stick GWS. My version is for fun flying.
**Neons** Bob
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Old 11-16-2008, 07:26 AM
  #2874  
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Thanks Bob for the link to the other thread.
Unfortunately it doesn't look like, he will build wingwarping soon.

But I found this:
http://www.kwmairpl.com.ph/pdf_files/RC-05DE.pdf

So I know at least, how it should work.

Uli
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Old 11-23-2008, 12:30 AM
  #2875  
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Thought I would post a couple of pictures of the Sterling UC Fokker DVII I am converting to EP RC. The plane is covered with plastic kitchen wrap. It is about he same size as a Great Planes SE5A. It still needs more of the controls installed. I put motor, receiver, ESC, and 2 servos on scales with it and it weights just under 1 pound. As soon as controls are installed I will test fly and if that goes ok I will paint and finish detailing it.
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