Wattflyer RC Network: RC Universe :: RCU Magazine :: RCU Forums :: RCU Classifieds :: RCU User Reviews :: RCU YouTube
Home Who's Online Calendar Today's Posts RealTime Post Spy Mark Forums Read
Go Back   WattFlyer RC Electric Flight Forums - Discuss radio control eflight > Electric R/C Airplanes > Scratch and Kit Built Aircraft
Register Members List Wattflyer Extras Articles Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read Social Groups

Scratch and Kit Built Aircraft Discuss and share your scratch built or kit built aircraft as well as building techniques, methods, mediums and resources.

Thank you for your support (hide ads)
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 05-31-2008, 01:29 PM   #1
Sky Sharkster
Super Contributor
 
Sky Sharkster's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Denver, Colorado
Posts: 5,455
View Sky Sharkster's Gallery11
Thanked 379 Times in 353 Posts
Awards Showcase

Globetrotter Pilot 
iTrader: (0)
Friends: (20)
Default Aileron Torque Rods, Explained

The aileron torque rod system is a way to operate two surfaces with one servo. When the right aileron goes up, the left aileron goes down; pretty simple, so far.
(1) Here's a crude sketch showing the basic set-up. A right and left-hand set are required for a full wing. Only the left-hand side is shown.
(2) Some of the hardware that can be used.
(3) The GWS setup. A thin wire bent into a loop for the vertical leg, with a rubber grommet inserted as the bearing.
(4) Here the vertical leg connection is made from a brass tube, flattened at the tip, with a hole drilled for the clevis pin. This idea is stolen from the ACE "Simple" series of models.
(5) Partially-threaded rod (2-56) is made into the torque rod, so a threaded connector can be used. This provides vertical height adjustment, a way to control deflection amount.
(6) Notice the sweep angle of the vertical leg; This will yield differential, more "up" than "down". This is a top-mounted wing, shown upside-down, we're looking at the bottom or inside of the wing.
Hope this helps, any other ideas for mounting, connectors, installation or comments, please post away!
Ron


Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_0194.JPG
Views:	4275
Size:	65.6 KB
ID:	67667   Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_0173.JPG
Views:	1856
Size:	80.7 KB
ID:	67668   Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_0193.JPG
Views:	1707
Size:	64.3 KB
ID:	67669   Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_0168.JPG
Views:	1770
Size:	93.5 KB
ID:	67670   Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_0191.JPG
Views:	1601
Size:	85.1 KB
ID:	67671  

Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_0187.JPG
Views:	1406
Size:	59.8 KB
ID:	67672  
Sky Sharkster is offline  
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-31-2008, 01:36 PM   #2
Sky Sharkster
Super Contributor
 
Sky Sharkster's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Denver, Colorado
Posts: 5,455
View Sky Sharkster's Gallery11
Thanked 379 Times in 353 Posts
Awards Showcase

Globetrotter Pilot 
iTrader: (0)
Friends: (20)
Default Whooops! The REAL # 4!

Goofed up on photo $ 4, here's the ACE set-up, the flattened brass tube;
Sorry about that!
Ron


Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_0183.JPG
Views:	931
Size:	56.4 KB
ID:	67679  
Sky Sharkster is offline  
  Reply With Quote
Old 06-05-2008, 02:59 AM   #3
magic612
Bernoulli + Newton = Lift
 
magic612's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Chicagoland area
Posts: 75
View magic612's Gallery7
Thanked 7 Times in 7 Posts
iTrader: (0)
Friends: (0)
Default

Ron - great thread!

One thing I learned a while back about setting up servos for differential: Use a 90 degree (or better yet, a circle style horn with holes at 120 degrees) horn instead of a "straight across."

In this manner, the aileron that is towards the side of the plane to which you are turning gets far greater "pull" (or push, as the case may be). The opposing side only moves a little, comparatively. It really helps avoid problems of adverse yaw, such as when there is equal movement of the control surfaces, since with this set up the surface on the "inside" of the turn gets greater movement.

(I hope all that made sense.)

www.rcscratchbuilders.com - building on the original dream of Wilbur and Orville.
magic612 is offline  
  Reply With Quote
Old 06-05-2008, 11:34 AM   #4
Sky Sharkster
Super Contributor
 
Sky Sharkster's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Denver, Colorado
Posts: 5,455
View Sky Sharkster's Gallery11
Thanked 379 Times in 353 Posts
Awards Showcase

Globetrotter Pilot 
iTrader: (0)
Friends: (20)
Default Circle Control Arms

Hi Dave,
Thanks for mentioning the disc servo arms, I forgot that!
I agree the circle or disc servo output arms are another way to provide differential output. If the pushrod is located ahead of the center of the disc (pivot) it will "push" more than pull, and vice versa.
The problem I've had is most of the discs are too small to generate much overall deflection. At least on Hitec + GWS micro servos, the disc diameter is smaller than the length of a straight or "X" arm.
If I could find larger discs that fit the output shaft splines, it would be a more accurate way to provide differential then bending the vertical leg of the torque rod off 90 degrees.
Ron
Sky Sharkster is offline  
  Reply With Quote
Old 06-05-2008, 08:18 PM   #5
magic612
Bernoulli + Newton = Lift
 
magic612's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Chicagoland area
Posts: 75
View magic612's Gallery7
Thanked 7 Times in 7 Posts
iTrader: (0)
Friends: (0)
Default

Originally Posted by Sky Sharkster View Post
Hi Dave,
If I could find larger discs that fit the output shaft splines, it would be a more accurate way to provide differential then bending the vertical leg of the torque rod off 90 degrees.
Ron
I've made my own. Take a disc horn (or an "X" horn, or whatever) and then use the small mounting screws to attach a disk of 1/16" plywood to the top. Drill holes in the plywood. The mounting screws heads are usually fairly flat, and don't interfere with the pushrods.

www.rcscratchbuilders.com - building on the original dream of Wilbur and Orville.
magic612 is offline  
  Reply With Quote
Old 06-05-2008, 11:28 PM   #6
fr4nk1yn
^_^
 
fr4nk1yn's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 1,387
View fr4nk1yn's Gallery24
Thanked 54 Times in 54 Posts
Send a message via MSN to fr4nk1yn
iTrader: (0)
Friends: (4)
Default

I can't find my photos. I use popsicle sticks. I drill a hole large enough for the rod and put either a 90 or a Z-Bend through it through it then wrap with thread and CA.
It works rather well and keeps me from buying stuff (: I can get a bunch or torque rods from one threaded 2-56 rod.

Great write up.

"If you stand behind me... You gonna get kicked." - Zebraman.
fr4nk1yn is offline  
  Reply With Quote
Old 06-06-2008, 01:55 AM   #7
Sky Sharkster
Super Contributor
 
Sky Sharkster's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Denver, Colorado
Posts: 5,455
View Sky Sharkster's Gallery11
Thanked 379 Times in 353 Posts
Awards Showcase

Globetrotter Pilot 
iTrader: (0)
Friends: (20)
Default More Torque Rods, Differential

Hi Dave and Fr4nk1yn,
Thanks for the contributions and suggestions! I hope this thread helps anyone looking for ideas.
Here's another photo, the servo has a disc control arm, with the pushrods mounted ahead of the pivot. This means they would "Push" a greater amount than "Pull", by a ratio of about 2:3.
Next to the servo is an "X" arm with two arms removed. By mounting it on the servo in this configuration, it would "Push" more than "Pull" by a ratio of 2:1.
Below the servo are a couple of "Z" bend pushrods, 1/16" wire. The threaded couplers next to it complete the set-up. They are threaded 2-56 at one end and hollowed for 1/16" wire at the other. A drop of solder and you're done!
Ron


Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_0200.JPG
Views:	907
Size:	84.4 KB
ID:	68279  
Sky Sharkster is offline  
  Reply With Quote
Old 06-06-2008, 03:37 AM   #8
magic612
Bernoulli + Newton = Lift
 
magic612's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Chicagoland area
Posts: 75
View magic612's Gallery7
Thanked 7 Times in 7 Posts
iTrader: (0)
Friends: (0)
Default

Ron, those pictures perfectly demonstrate what I do for single-servo aileron set ups. Great shots!

www.rcscratchbuilders.com - building on the original dream of Wilbur and Orville.
magic612 is offline  
  Reply With Quote
Old 06-06-2008, 02:44 PM   #9
aero_k
Member
 
aero_k's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Ottawa, Canada
Posts: 833
Thanked 31 Times in 30 Posts
iTrader: (1)
Friends: (3)
Default

Thank you for this helpful thread. I'm thinking of using a torque rod system for a flying wing I plan to build, with one servo per elevon. I'm thinking that I would put the servo directly in line with the control rod and directly attach the torque rod to the servo arm. I tried to illustrate what I mean below. The problem I see with this method is that I cant really adjust the elevon deflection vs servo arm movement, the ratio would be 1:1. I may re-consider using you method with one servo per elevon so that I can adjust the amount of throw.


Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	torque rod.JPG
Views:	890
Size:	12.9 KB
ID:	68309  

Superfly | Hyperflea | RCpowers F-117 (x2) | F-18 Parkjet | F-22 Parkjet | HL Yak-55 | Mud Duck | Clik 3D | Lama v4
aero_k is offline  
  Reply With Quote
Old 01-22-2010, 12:13 PM   #10
PaperAirplane
Subscribed...
 
PaperAirplane's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: USA
Posts: 849
Thanked 48 Times in 47 Posts
Club: None (yet...)
iTrader: (0)
Friends: (7)
Default

Bookmarked

Hanger: GWS Slow Stick; Nutball
PaperAirplane is offline  
  Reply With Quote
Old 06-20-2013, 09:06 AM   #11
JMBanner
New Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 1
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
iTrader: (0)
Friends: (0)
Default

I have found this thread very useful guys. I have unequal amounts of movement on a torque rod aileron system on a new model and am hopeful that I can solve it with the use of a v-servo arm or disc.

Does anyone have the time / inclination to also throw up an explanation on recommended hinging methods for use with torque arm systems?
JMBanner is offline  
  Reply With Quote
Old 06-20-2013, 04:50 PM   #12
fhhuber
Super Contributor
 
fhhuber's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 4,786
Thanked 493 Times in 479 Posts
iTrader: (0)
Friends: (2)
Default

Originally Posted by aero_k View Post
Thank you for this helpful thread. I'm thinking of using a torque rod system for a flying wing I plan to build, with one servo per elevon. I'm thinking that I would put the servo directly in line with the control rod and directly attach the torque rod to the servo arm. I tried to illustrate what I mean below. The problem I see with this method is that I cant really adjust the elevon deflection vs servo arm movement, the ratio would be 1:1. I may re-consider using you method with one servo per elevon so that I can adjust the amount of throw.
This can be done and will work.

There is a system based on this style setup where the "L" going into the control surface goes into a plywood lined slot and instead of the torque rod being on the hinge line it is at some other angle. By adjusting the angle of the bend at the control surface/hinge to be appropriate you can even have the torque rod at 90 deg to the hinge line.
fhhuber is offline  
  Reply With Quote
Old 06-20-2013, 05:19 PM   #13
pmullen503
Super Contributor
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 1,000
Thanked 82 Times in 81 Posts
Awards Showcase

Scratchbuilders Award 
iTrader: (0)
Friends: (3)
Default

Originally Posted by fhhuber View Post
This can be done and will work.

There is a system based on this style setup where the "L" going into the control surface goes into a plywood lined slot and instead of the torque rod being on the hinge line it is at some other angle. By adjusting the angle of the bend at the control surface/hinge to be appropriate you can even have the torque rod at 90 deg to the hinge line.
It's called Rotary Drive System: http://www.irfmachineworks.com/rds/


It's never too late to have a happy childhood.
pmullen503 is offline  
  Reply With Quote
Old 06-20-2013, 08:36 PM   #14
pizzano
Behold The Renaissance
 
pizzano's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: So. Calif
Posts: 2,313
Thanked 149 Times in 147 Posts
iTrader: (0)
Friends: (3)
Default

"It's called Rotary Drive System": http://www.irfmachineworks.com/rds/

Yes.........

Seen these used on heli's with pretty good results......seems the servo "torque" issue so prevalent with the larger heli's can be stabilized with this system......I've never used them on 450's since typical mounting on that size frame can be an issue.
pizzano is offline  
  Reply With Quote
Old 06-21-2013, 12:31 AM   #15
fhhuber
Super Contributor
 
fhhuber's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 4,786
Thanked 493 Times in 479 Posts
iTrader: (0)
Friends: (2)
Default

Just about any control linkage you might need can be worked out... We have a lot of "tricks" available.

Torque rods have been very helpful in keeping the control system hidden. That means less drag and better looking scale models.
fhhuber is offline  
  Reply With Quote
Old 06-22-2013, 09:49 PM   #16
solentlife
Super Contributor
 
solentlife's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Ex UK Brit now in Latvia west coast - Ventspils
Posts: 11,525
View solentlife's Gallery47
Thanked 532 Times in 524 Posts
Club: Founder Member Ventspils RC Club. Ex Waltham Chase and Meon Valley Soaring.
Awards Showcase

Scratchbuilders Award  Scratchbuilders Award  Outstanding Contributor Award  125mph Speed Demon 
iTrader: (0)
Friends: (19)
Default

Hingeing of torque rod ailerons is not usually any different to others as the L of the torque rod is usually only just inside the aileron slot area.... leaving majority of aileron hinge line free for hinges.
It becomes a problem when a weak aileron structure is used as some foams are ... then the L needs to be further along the aileron hinge line. The solution then is to use hinge tape where torque tube is and whatever where no torque tube.

There are variations on the tube idea - such as the HK Pitts where the torque rod lays ON the wing ... instead of IN the hinge line. Rod extends out from fuselage, L lays on wing with outboard end passing through small O on aileron ... rod turns pressing down or pulling up the O fixed to the aileron. This system allows hinges to be full width foam or whatever you wish ... it also can let servo be carried in fuselage and all you do is insert L into O when mounting wing etc.

Nigel

222kph PKJ,EDF Concorde, Mini4,Mig3,T45,PKJ twin,ME109,Edge540,Cessna182,Skymaster Biplane,F15,F16,Badius,Ultimate,SE5,Qbee10,450 Heli,V911,J3 Cub Founder 9x forum: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Flysky_RC_radio/
- Subscribe my Youtube: "solentlifeuk"
solentlife is offline  
  Reply With Quote
Old 06-23-2013, 12:06 AM   #17
fhhuber
Super Contributor
 
fhhuber's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 4,786
Thanked 493 Times in 479 Posts
iTrader: (0)
Friends: (2)
Default

There are ways to make hinges with the torque rod as the hinge pin also. This puts the torque exactly on the hinge line.

One method is to grind the heads off of the pins in hinge points so you can remove the pin then enlarge the holes.
fhhuber is offline  
  Reply With Quote
Reply

  WattFlyer RC Electric Flight Forums - Discuss radio control eflight > Electric R/C Airplanes > Scratch and Kit Built Aircraft

Tags
aileron , explained , rods , torque


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Carbon rods Lloyd Foamies 21 09-18-2008 02:09 PM
Control Rods, what to use? shotgunsmitty Electronic Builders Workshop 12 03-07-2008 06:48 PM
Hell Explained By Chemistry Student yank51 Humor 0 12-14-2007 02:09 PM
Rat-Rods icaboy General Electric Discussions 2 08-08-2007 03:03 AM
Cricket explained ... Don Sims Humor 2 09-07-2006 05:28 AM


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 06:13 PM.


Powered by: vBulletin
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright 2005 WattfFlyer.com
RCU Eflight HQ

Charities we support Select: Yorkie Rescue  ::  Crohn's & Colitis Foundation



Page generated in 0.23660 seconds with 61 queries