Scratch and Kit Built Aircraft Discuss and share your scratch built or kit built aircraft as well as building techniques, methods, mediums and resources.

A Scratch Builder (Trying to do the "Nasty")

Old 07-09-2008, 07:18 PM
  #1  
TylerJCooper
Member
Thread Starter
 
TylerJCooper's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Omaha, NE
Posts: 521
Default A Scratch Builder (Trying to do the "Nasty")

Hey WF,

I really have been wanting to learn to build foamies and after spending a few months on WF I think I am ready to give it a shot. Therefore, this thread is more about a "scratch builder" then a "scratch build". I would love everyone's help to walk me through my first build. I have read quite a bit, but there is two questions that come to mind. First, what should I build? I would like to do something 3D, that could be powered by a 370 or 450 e-flight brushless motor. I will also need to know where I can get plans. Secondly, what foam and where do I get it? My LHS doesn't carry foam. I have asked this question before, but I am going to need more specific answer please, such as, website, store names, and the name of the foam. Lastly, I don't have much money, therefore, I don't need the best performing products, but most reasonable.

Thanks for all you help and support,
Coop

Last edited by TylerJCooper; 07-11-2008 at 12:33 AM.
TylerJCooper is offline  
Old 07-09-2008, 07:54 PM
  #2  
aero_k
Member
 
aero_k's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Ottawa, Canada
Posts: 833
Default

Hey Coop. I did my first scratch build in the Winter and it was a lot of fun, and was certainly a learning experience. One thing you should be prepared for is the inital cost for all the tools you need: Xacto knives, various tapes and glues, a cutting mat, soldering iron, etc. I found that everytime I'd make a little progress, there was something I needed to go buy because I didn't have it. Once you have everything, you can build a plane for close to $20. I'm still in school and in a ton of debt, so keeping things cheap is essential for me.

Have a look here for plans: http://www.wattflyer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=14868. My first build was the NASTY 3D by waterdog at RCG. It was pretty straight forward to build. Too bad I crashed it 5 seconds into the first flight and ended up tossing it in the garbage. There were a lot of things wrong with it due to my inexperience, but my next build, the Infineon i3D, went much better.

As far as materials, I have been using Elmers Foam board from Michaels craft store. There are also similar types form Dollar store and Walmart I think. You can get it for $1 or $2 a sheet, so its pretty cheap. Its about 5mm thick with paper on each side. Removing the paper will reduce the weight by more than half, but will need some stiffening. Remove the paper by putting it in a big garbage bag with some rubbing alcohol and water, enough to soak it. Let it sit for a few hours, then remove and let completely dry. The paper should just peel off. You can do several sheets at a time.

Others use Bluecor, Protection Board III, or Fan Fold Foam (FFF), which is blue insulation foam. Sometimes it can be hard to find, but a lot of people use it and its fairly cheap as well I think.

For glues, I use low temp hot glue, Gorilla glue, and foam safe CA. Hot glue is heavy, but its cheap, and dries quickly. Gorilla glue is great and holds things very well, but takes a few hours to set. Others may have other suggestions, but this is all I have ever needed for foam builds.

For powering your plane, HXT 9g servos are great, and TowerPro or Turnigy brushless motors are usually pretty cheap. Look at HeadsUpRC.com or Hobby City for these. Loong max lipos work well and are cheap as well. I would avoid the Mag8 escs though. I bought some 'Turnigy Basic' escs that seem pretty good, and were also cheap.

I hope thats enough to get you started. I'm also pretty new to this, so I'm just sharing my experience and its worked for me so far. Just keep reading threads on here and you'll learn a lot. Good luck!
aero_k is offline  
Old 07-09-2008, 08:38 PM
  #3  
TylerJCooper
Member
Thread Starter
 
TylerJCooper's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Omaha, NE
Posts: 521
Default

Aero K, that was great. Filled with a great amount of info. It was really helpful to hear your advice on the foam. It also makes me feel better to know that this hobby doesn't always have to cost an arm and leg. It appears that I have most of the supplies needed. Just need to get some foam, glue (possiby glue gun), and a plan. Can't wait!
TylerJCooper is offline  
Old 07-10-2008, 05:28 PM
  #4  
TylerJCooper
Member
Thread Starter
 
TylerJCooper's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Omaha, NE
Posts: 521
Default

Well, I have picked out a design today. I am going to go with the Yak54. http://www.eflightwiki.com/eflightwi...p?title=Yak-54. I have drooling over Yaks for sometime now. Will 6mm cellfoam be sufficient?
TylerJCooper is offline  
Old 07-10-2008, 06:35 PM
  #5  
King Cobra
Permanently Banned
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Sunny South
Posts: 47
Default

I just happen to be scratch building a 3-D Nasty. If all works out. I will go to my 6' wingspan scratchbuild of the same plane..The proto type of my design can come later. I will disclose the name of the plane I designed later and try and put printable plans for all to use as did the fella that designed the Nasty/Big Nasty. Matt

Last edited by King Cobra; 07-13-2008 at 03:19 PM.
King Cobra is offline  
Old 07-10-2008, 06:37 PM
  #6  
TylerJCooper
Member
Thread Starter
 
TylerJCooper's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Omaha, NE
Posts: 521
Default Change of Plans

After consulting some people at my LHS and looking around here. I have decided to us the Nasty plane design. I plan on using 5mm Cellfoam and a slow glue gun. Before starting, I would like to make sure that I have a motor that will power it. I have two eflite brushless motor. The 450 and 370. Will one of these work?
TylerJCooper is offline  
Old 07-10-2008, 06:44 PM
  #7  
King Cobra
Permanently Banned
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Sunny South
Posts: 47
Default

My foamy is quite simular to the Nasty.But I will build the Nasty first( see photo to come). I will be using a Zagi 400 I believe. A 400 should be just fine if you pay attention to weight. Here is a photo of my cut-outs. I am using white foam (very light) and will be using light weight carbon 'Arrow'rods. Matt

Last edited by King Cobra; 07-13-2008 at 03:21 PM.
King Cobra is offline  
Old 07-10-2008, 06:46 PM
  #8  
King Cobra
Permanently Banned
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Sunny South
Posts: 47
Default My scratch build

Sorry, here it is. It is a mess to sand with all that stuff sticking to ya. But, very easy to form. I will be coating the foam with a skin also for strength, etc. etc. Matt
Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version

Name:	My 3-D Foamy.jpg
Views:	360
Size:	87.7 KB
ID:	72137  
King Cobra is offline  
Old 07-10-2008, 06:49 PM
  #9  
King Cobra
Permanently Banned
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Sunny South
Posts: 47
Default

If you have the 450, by all means use it! The more power the better. If you happen to go a little over weight, you won't have to worry about it. Matt
King Cobra is offline  
Old 07-10-2008, 10:35 PM
  #10  
TylerJCooper
Member
Thread Starter
 
TylerJCooper's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Omaha, NE
Posts: 521
Default

Thanks Matt. It sounds like a plan. I am spending most of my day off organizing my hobby room (garage) to get everything in order. I plan on trying to start working on it next week and will start a thread to get all the help I can get.

Here are the plans for the plane:
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=390003

Last edited by TylerJCooper; 07-10-2008 at 11:51 PM.
TylerJCooper is offline  
Old 07-11-2008, 12:07 AM
  #11  
King Cobra
Permanently Banned
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Sunny South
Posts: 47
Default

Cool, I look forward to seeing that. I will do the same. I will be using HS-55 servos, and I will identify the motor when I get to it. I may have a 480. I hope I have a 480 because my plane may be a bit heavier because of the carbon reinforcements I need to do to my white foam. Thanks for showing me the plans. Matt
King Cobra is offline  
Old 07-11-2008, 03:17 PM
  #12  
aero_k
Member
 
aero_k's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Ottawa, Canada
Posts: 833
Default

Good choice on the Nasty. I'd like to try building another one, but I don't have the time at the moment. I agree, go with the bigger motor. I used a Towerpro 2409-12 I think with a 1047 prop and it took off almost vertically right out of my hand. Unfortunately I think I was tail heavy and didn't have enough throw on my elevator, so it stalled and nose dived into the ground, breaking the stick mount and bending the motor shaft.

Anyway, good luck with the build! Try to keep it as light as you can. Its easy to go crazy with the glue gun, but it can add quite a bit of weight. Think of how much one glue stick weighs and how many you go through to build the plane. It adds up fast.
aero_k is offline  
Old 07-11-2008, 05:53 PM
  #13  
King Cobra
Permanently Banned
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Sunny South
Posts: 47
Default

I agree about the glue sticks weight. I gave up the glue gun long ago. I either use 5,10 or 20 minute Hobby Poxies,and it doesn't take much to get a good bond. 5 minute is usually good and quick for all foam planes and can get you in the air almost just as fast as using a glue gun. It is less weight and, I believe worth the wait to get a lighter plane. Like most say, don't rush it. For balancing, I imbed BB's into the foam. For my white foamy, I will be starting out with a 40 grit sanding block on my leading edge and fuse and eventually finishing with a 120 grit. I don't advise anyone using white foam but I had a 4' X 8' sheet laying around. I will have some extra reinforcements to do, but it will work fine. Matt
King Cobra is offline  
Old 07-11-2008, 07:11 PM
  #14  
aero_k
Member
 
aero_k's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Ottawa, Canada
Posts: 833
Default

I agree, 5 minute epoxy works well. I find it a little messy and I don't like stinking up my apartment with it, so I don't use it as often.
aero_k is offline  
Old 07-11-2008, 07:35 PM
  #15  
TylerJCooper
Member
Thread Starter
 
TylerJCooper's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Omaha, NE
Posts: 521
Default

I currently don't have epoxy and my RC fund is depleted until mid next month. I am hoping that the 450 will power the extra weight that is added by the glue gun.
TylerJCooper is offline  
Old 07-11-2008, 07:55 PM
  #16  
aero_k
Member
 
aero_k's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Ottawa, Canada
Posts: 833
Default

Looks like that motor should be fine for the Nasty. I think you should be able to keep it under 20oz, so you'll have plenty of power.

Specifications
Type: Brushless Outrunner
Size: Replacement for 370 or 400
Bearings or Bushings: Ball Bearings
Recommended Prop Range: 9x6 to 11x3.8 Slow Flyer or 10x5 to 12x6 Electric
Voltage: 7.2 - 12
RPM/Volt (Kv): 890
Resistance (Ri): .20 ohms
Idle Current (Io): .69A @ 8V
Shaft Diameter: .16 in (4mm)
Weight: 2.5 oz (72 g)
Diameter: 1.1 in (28mm)
Length: 1.3 in (33mm)
Continuous Current: 14A
Maximum Burst Current: 18A for 15 seconds
Cells: 2-3 Li-Po or 6-10 Ni-Cd/Ni-MH
Speed Control: 20A Brushless ESC

The Park 450 is ideal for 3D park flyers 15- to 25-ounce and scale park flyers 20- to 30-ounces using 2S - 3S 1200 2100mAh Li-Po battery packs. It will provide sport 3D performance for a Mini Edge size plane and great performance on the new E-flite P-47
aero_k is offline  
Old 07-11-2008, 08:23 PM
  #17  
King Cobra
Permanently Banned
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Sunny South
Posts: 47
Default

Originally Posted by TylerJCooper View Post
I currently don't have epoxy and my RC fund is depleted until mid next month. I am hoping that the 450 will power the extra weight that is added by the glue gun.

Not to worry. Many folks use the 380 and 400 and they say that they get great results. They also used the glue gun. I am sure that the glue gun material is calculated in the flying weight of the models that they build. Give us the link to your build when you get it going. Matt
King Cobra is offline  
Old 07-11-2008, 08:40 PM
  #18  
TylerJCooper
Member
Thread Starter
 
TylerJCooper's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Omaha, NE
Posts: 521
Default

Sounds good. I am going to just keep this as the building thread. I did the cut outs last night and going to be the pics up soon. The only problem is that the foam I have is 1/2 inch too short for the width of the wing. I think I am going to use it and adjust the fuselage to fit. I will put some pictures up to get a visual.
TylerJCooper is offline  
Old 07-11-2008, 08:47 PM
  #19  
King Cobra
Permanently Banned
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Sunny South
Posts: 47
Default

Very nice. Will be watching. Matt
King Cobra is offline  
Old 07-11-2008, 09:53 PM
  #20  
aero_k
Member
 
aero_k's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Ottawa, Canada
Posts: 833
Default

I assume you mean that your foam is not long enough to do the whole wing span in one piece. Do the wing in two halves and just glue it in the middle. Its plenty strong enough, if not stronger. If its not wide enough (chord is too large for the foam) you can try cutting the wing and the ailerons separately to reduce the width of the wing. You'll just have to make sure you make smooth, straight cuts to the ailerons will fit well to the trailing edge of the wing.

Or, scaling down the plans works too, but it sounds like you have already started cutting...
aero_k is offline  
Old 07-11-2008, 10:21 PM
  #21  
King Cobra
Permanently Banned
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Sunny South
Posts: 47
Default

If you lose 1/4" on each wingtip, you will be ok. Take a ruler and measure from the fuesloge to each wing tip to see how well centered you are. And as Aero K says, two piece main wings are fine because you will be using a carbon rod and the seam will be at the fuse. Be sure to use the balsa braces against the fuse carbon rods for added strength. Matt
King Cobra is offline  
Old 07-12-2008, 08:09 PM
  #22  
TylerJCooper
Member
Thread Starter
 
TylerJCooper's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Omaha, NE
Posts: 521
Default

Here are a couple pictures of what is going on. You can see that I have finished the cutouts an taped them together. You will notice that the length of the wing is alright, but I am going to have to shorten the width of it. I have not begun cutting the cellfoam, so we still have some time for some adjustments. Tell me what you think.
Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version

Name:	P1015735.jpg
Views:	253
Size:	107.9 KB
ID:	72374   Click image for larger version

Name:	P1015736.jpg
Views:	280
Size:	82.9 KB
ID:	72375   Click image for larger version

Name:	P1015737.jpg
Views:	237
Size:	85.3 KB
ID:	72376   Click image for larger version

Name:	P1015738.jpg
Views:	245
Size:	103.1 KB
ID:	72377  
TylerJCooper is offline  
Old 07-12-2008, 10:04 PM
  #23  
King Cobra
Permanently Banned
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Sunny South
Posts: 47
Default

Tyler: Looks very nice. I am off to start my 'Nasty' build thread and after I start it, may I put the link here for you and others to follow. I understsnd that this is your build thread and I was just wondering. I will be using the Zagi 400.Thanks. Matt
King Cobra is offline  
Old 07-12-2008, 10:48 PM
  #24  
TylerJCooper
Member
Thread Starter
 
TylerJCooper's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Omaha, NE
Posts: 521
Default

Matt you are more then welcome to link the thread. I also encourage you to use this thread. It is titled "Trying to do the Nasty", therefore, if it is a Nasty, you can do it here.
TylerJCooper is offline  
Old 07-13-2008, 12:39 AM
  #25  
TylerJCooper
Member
Thread Starter
 
TylerJCooper's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Omaha, NE
Posts: 521
Default

Well the outline is made and now time for some cutting. You can see how much width I am losing on the wing outline. However, I don't foresee it being a huge problem.
Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version

Name:	P1015739.jpg
Views:	176
Size:	65.0 KB
ID:	72416   Click image for larger version

Name:	P1015740.jpg
Views:	181
Size:	96.5 KB
ID:	72417  
TylerJCooper is offline  

Quick Reply: A Scratch Builder (Trying to do the "Nasty")


Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell My Personal Information -

Copyright 2021 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.

Page generated in 0.12881 seconds with 18 queries