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scratchbuild contest #2 CF-105 Avro Arrow

Old 09-06-2008, 05:10 PM
  #1  
RickAvery
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Default scratchbuild contest #2 CF-105 Avro Arrow

I've been addicted to building pusher jets for the last year or so. Here's the build thread for my entry in contest #2. This plane was so far ahead of its time & able to achieve mach 2 in 1957! Only 6 were built, and only 5 were ever flown. Because of budget constraints and much political interference, the Canadian defence dept. ordered the planes & tooling cut up and destroyed with less than 70 hours of combined testing completed. Such a shame! I found the plans for my build on the web. They were for a 24" wing span, 35" length model. I expanded them to achieve 35" WS & 50" length. I also deviated from the plans and eliminated the full width bulkheads in favor of a Steve Shumate style center backbone flow through design which I believe helps in the cooling of the motor & ESC. She's being built from FFF protection board from Lowes. Here are some pics of the original plane & artists renderings of how I hope she turns out.
Rick
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Last edited by RickAvery; 09-06-2008 at 07:00 PM.
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Old 09-07-2008, 04:36 PM
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As I had posted before, I have already started this project, so here is where we're at. The front & rear fuselage sections have been roughly built and are being test fit. You can see the flow through full length backbone design and all of the full width bulkheads are missing. The motor mount stick is taped roughly in place and the battery hatch & the top piece which will make up the top where the turtle deck starts and the top of the intakes is being fitted up. Notice the triple thickness foam at the rear. This will allow me to create the rounded bottom where the tail cones will attach. The nose shape is wrong and will be shortened up and reshaped a bit. The next step will be to glue the fuselages pieces together, cut out the wing & tail and start rounding the edges, i.e. sanding. And when you think you're done sanding, sand for three more hours, then you know you're half way done

Rick
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Old 09-08-2008, 08:56 PM
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OK, here is the link.
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=352329

You'll find the plans I started with in post #6. Like I mentioned, I expanded them quite a bit and only used them as a general guide for sizes & shapes. The actual build is being highly modified as to the technique. Many of the parts, i.e. wing, vert stab & some fuse parts will/have been doubled up because of the increase in size.

Rick
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Old 09-09-2008, 02:32 AM
  #4  
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Thanks all for the encouragement. The competition should be quite a challange. Good luck to all.

Rick
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Old 09-10-2008, 06:00 AM
  #5  
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Made some progress the last couple of days. Joined the front and aft fuselage sections. Note the hand hold in the bottom of the fuselage with the solid block of EPP foam added to allow me a place to grip the plane for hand launching. This is located at the CoG. Started carving/shaping the intake caps and fences from 1" pink foam. Got the wing and Vertical stab cut and lamminated. They're both made from 2 layers of 1/4" FFF. The wing was too big to get from one panel, so there is a joint which I staggered. I also embedded a 1/4" carbon fiber tube across the span to add some stiffness. THe tail has no reinforcement. I installed the intake top panel so I could start to fit the fences. I also cut out the elevons and started to roughly shape the leading & trailing edges. In the last pic, I've just set the wing & canopy on the fuselage and taped the roughed intake fences, vert stab & elevons in place. I think she's starting to look like an airplane.
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Old 09-13-2008, 01:05 AM
  #6  
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More progress this week. Got the electronics installed. Installed the elevon servos. Got the canopy hatch finished. Started to shape the canopy from pink foam. Hinged the rudder, elevons are next. Started working out the tail cone design. Notice the rounded cut out in the motor mount stick. This is for the carbon fiber wing spar to pass through. Happy building.

Rick
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Last edited by RickAvery; 12-31-2008 at 07:44 AM.
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Old 09-13-2008, 04:45 AM
  #7  
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Thanks Smoke. Wish there were more hours in a day.

Rick
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Old 09-13-2008, 06:31 AM
  #8  
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Thanks Guys! Happy building.

Rick
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Old 09-15-2008, 06:27 AM
  #9  
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Originally Posted by Rabbitcreekok View Post
Really nice work, Rick. I think you have done this kind of work before. That does not look like a first try in foam. It is amazing how you get the contours out of a flat piece of foam.
Thanks RC Ok for the kind words. Yep, I've built a couple of foamys. I just love cold war era jets.

Here is some weekend progress. Got the rudder hinged and the servo installed. Was able to get some carving on the canopy done. I hogged out the foam with a hot wire on a soldering gun. Attached the wing and vert stab. Got the turtle deck installed. should be able to maiden by the weekend. Awiting a new motor as the one slated for this plane is running out of true and vibrated horribly. With a 4s 3000mah batt. and and an APC 8X4e prop, she was pulling 450 watts! Should scoot right along!! Happy building.

Rick
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Old 09-15-2008, 05:46 PM
  #10  
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Originally Posted by fr4nk1yn View Post
How are you going to launch that monster?
fr4nk1yn,
Iíve incorporated hand-holds into the bottom of the fuselage, (see the pic). These have been located at the CoG. Iíve used this build technique on the F-15, (pictured and a bit larger that the Arrow), with great success. The F-15 pics show me ready to launch for the maiden flight, then launching. The other F-15 pic shows the bottom on a fly-by showing the hand hold, after she had been painted. I make my planes ĎEarn their colorsí before I spend the time painting them up. They gotta fly or they go in the trash. Happy building.
Rick
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Old 09-19-2008, 07:39 AM
  #11  
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Well, got to maiden the arrow today. It was quite exciting to say the least. As is my MO, I maiden my planes before I paint them up. They have to 'Earn their colors' so to speak. I balanced her up to be a bit nose heavy. Range check was good. So ramp up to WOT & a healthy chuck into a slight breeze and she was off to the races!! I mean excelerating at a very quick pace. The nose heavy CG immediatly became apparent along with a slight roll to the left. No problems getting her under control. Pulled her up, banked left and leveled her out. l and backed off of the throttle as she was getting small very fast. Needs lots of up trim. Need to bring the CoG back some. Also wants to turn left. After much clicking of the right trim button I get hands off flight. Run a couple of laps. Seems a bit twitchy. I have no expo set up. I run her by and throttle her up and pull her vert. She goes straight up for 400' and doesn't slow down much!!! I back off of the throttle and try to level her out. The nose doesn't go forward to level as I expected. All of the up trim to get level flight has eaten up my down travel. Kick the rudder over a bit & she does a sloppy hammer head and starts back down picking up speed very quickly. I start to slowly pull up to level her out and get no respnose. Now my heart rate skyrockets!! More up stick and she slowly comes out of the dive. WHEW!! OK enough excitement, let's bring her around to line her up for landing approach. As she heads down field for the turn around and approach, and about 50' altitude right in front of me, she gets a MAJOR twich to the right with a loud bang and bits of aircraft flying off. Motor power is gone. I still have control surfaces. My landing strip sits on a spine which drops off on each side aproximately 60' to the bottom. I start running toward the side which the arrow is heading hoping I can set her down softly on the ground as long as I can keep her in sight. She actually floated very well and I was able to set her down in my neighbors horse arena. Very soft sandy bottom!!! I figured the prop must have come off. I hate set screw adapters. So I jump on the wifes quad and ride down to retrieve the arrow. When I get there I unplug the battery and quickly notice that there is NO motor. The motor mount has been sheared off! There has been zero damage from the landing, but some minor damage to the aft end where the prop acted like a vegematic on the foam before becoming unplugged and falling away. I don't need this kind of excitement!! All in all, it could have been MUCH worse. Here's the pics, they tell the story. Double-dirty-darn, I have to repair this bird before she even gets painted!!
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Last edited by RickAvery; 09-19-2008 at 08:03 AM.
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Old 09-19-2008, 07:59 AM
  #12  
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Here's some pics of the damage, the broken motor mount, and the repair. Much was learned from the flight. First, DON'T use a GWS motor mount for a 450 watt system. It will last approximately 5 min!!! DUHHH!!!: What a dope I was for that one. The CoG needs to come back a bit. Also, I had mentioned the twichyness. Some of this could have been the position of the elevons as they were both in an up position because of the nose heavy condition. this ment that roll control was mostly initiated by an up positioned elevon going even further up and the oppisite side barely making it to the level position. This would cause a lot of drag on the up moving elevon. Also, I have since read that shaping the the leading edges to a sharp edge can have adverse effects on a RC planes handeling. My leading edges were shaped in a sharp edge. The mushy response in the plane responding to up command when coming out of a high speed dive appears to be the lack of stiffness in the push rod configuration. The push rods will be replaced with larger diameter rods with a different bend to them. I will also take a sanding block to the leading edges of the wings and round them out. Oh well, after all is said and done, the day could have turned out MUCH worse. The arrow will rise again. Happy building/repairing

Rick
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Old 09-19-2008, 04:20 PM
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Thanks Chellie. As always, your willingness to help out is greatly appreciated. The mounts you linked to are good ones and I've used them on several park flyers. I don't believe they are stout enough to handel 450 watts. This is a larger, heavier, 36mm motor and the hole pattern on the mount is not a match. I'm sure its better than the GWS mount which failed. In all fairness, the GWS mount would most likely perform fine when used as intended. I would keep the power down to below 200 watts when using a GWS mount. Here is a link to the mount I'm currently using in my F-15, same power system as the Arrow, with 20+ flights and no problems. http://www.hobby-lobby.com/motor-mount.htm. It's the aluminum one 3/4 of the way down labeled 'Stick motor mount for AXI and Atlas OUTRUNNERS'. Thanks again. Happy building.
Rick

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Old 09-19-2008, 06:11 PM
  #14  
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Hi Larry,
Thanks for the input. Yep, I think you're right. I used a clamshell mount for my F7U cutlass and it was very solid. I will for sure redesign the motor mount system for the next plane. Here is the link to the mount I ordered to replace the Arrows' mount. It appears to be VERY stout. http://www.espritmodel.com/index.asp...OD&ProdID=2659 Thanks again.

Rick
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Old 09-19-2008, 08:15 PM
  #15  
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Originally Posted by Larry3215 View Post
Its kind of hard to see in these pics but the clam shell mount on the yak setup screws to two separate sticks that run a looooong ways back on the fuse.

Before I did that the motor was ripping loose from the foam every few flights.

On the Mega Capricorn, the gear box is attached to two long carbon tubes that also run a long ways back on to the fuse.

Both setups are spinning 22" props at 800-900 watts - thats a LOT of torque - and are holding up well.
Nice pics Larry. You've given me some good ideas. Thanks.

Rick
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Old 11-03-2008, 05:46 AM
  #16  
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Well, I've been away from the build thread for about 6 weeks or so. Here's an up date.
After the action packed maiden flight detailed above, I ordered a BEEFY mount from Esprit models. Made the repairs also shown above. Mounted the motor, Rounded the leading edges of the wing, Added stiffer push rods for the elevons and brought teh CoG back ~1/2". Then went out for round 2. Well when I chucked her into the air, she headed for the ground I hadn't given much if any up to my toss. Since I'm tossing off of a hill, this is normally not a problem as 30' out I have 20' of altitude. But she just sagged down the hill. No amount of up elevon would bring her out of the shallow dive. As previously mentioned the power system is quite stout at 450 watts. Since I launched her at near full throttle, she was accelerating quite rapidly especially going down hill and by the time I decided she was going in & cut the throttle, she was going a good clip and went into some pretty rough, cobby, not-so-soft brush. [email protected]! I hate when that happens. I was absolutly floored! Why no up response? The power was there & she was certianly going fast enough to have authority over the elevons. Man was I bummed. I picked up the pieces & with the wind completly sucked out of my sails, I put the arrow up on a rack, put the pieces in a box and got out my trusty, land based trucks & buggies. Re-did my off-road race track, and said to hell with these airplanes. Sometimes you just have to walk away for awhile. And although I've had a lot of good luck and fortune making scratch built airplanes fly, at some point I'll come across one that wont Here are some pics of the damaged arrow.
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Old 11-03-2008, 06:01 AM
  #17  
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I was down, but not out. After a month I pulled her down & went over the wreckage with a fine toothed comb. I decided that the elevons needed to have more area for more authority. I also found an interesting thing with the motor mount. It had appeared to have rocked on the stick slightly inducing some down thrust. This would push the rear of the plane up and the nose down. probably why she did not respond to up input. The nose was being forced down by the thrust. I started the repairs. In the pics you can see the new nose section and the repair for the chunk ripped from the right wing. One of the toughest repairs was the shreadded intake fence which was carved from a single piece of foam. You can see the new, larger elevons with the old and new side by side. The overall shape of the wing is unchanged.
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Old 11-03-2008, 06:17 AM
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OK, here's the repaired Arrow ready for round three & most likely the last round if unsuccessful. I filled in the motor holes in the motor mount stick with epoxy and redrilled them. The mount, being VERY stiff has a minimal amount of deflection for squeezing the stick when bolted tight. I made two shims to fit on either side of the stick and the mount is now fits very tight on the stick even before the bolts are added. I added a small bit of up thrust on advice from the person who made the plans I started with. I also floated some epoxy into the space between mount and the stick to eliminate any rocking of the mount under power. The canopy is just taped on until we determine if she is a flyer or trash can fodder. I still must admit, I'm a bit aprehensive & somewhat nervous about throwing her up again. BUT, it's going to happen in the next day or two. Stay tuned. Wish me luck.
Rick
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Old 11-04-2008, 05:46 AM
  #19  
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Thanks Saucer! I Kind of used the mode of indefference you mentioned and took her out this morning as if she was just another plane to fly. Plugged her in, checked the control surfaces wound her up and chucked her into the blue. She flew off and was actually pretty well mannered. No surprises! I think the mods I made toned down the twitchy behavior. She balloons a little with full throttle application, due to the slight up thrust on the motor. I trimmed her out to fly flat at 1/2 throttle. I had the expo set at 35%, I'm going to up it to 50%. So round 3 was a success! I think she'll be a good flyer. Her AUW is 43oz without any paint. She still needs some spackeling, sanding and sealing with WBPU to fix up the rest of the rash encountered with the development to this point. Then we'll start the final paint coat. I'll post pics as she's painted. Hopefully we'll get her under 3lbs. all prettied up. With that weight and 400+ watts, she should fly like the wind!! Blue skies!!
Rick
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Old 11-04-2008, 07:18 AM
  #20  
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I'm going to paint her up as #RL 203. Each of the 5, CF-105 Arrows that actually flew had a slightly different paint livery. This is a fun part for me as some amount of research goes into finding the roundels and insignias for each plane. Happy building & Flying.
Rick
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Old 11-13-2008, 07:14 AM
  #21  
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The decorate and detail portion of the build is under way. It's taking a bit longer than normal as She's had a pretty rough life so far and quite a bit of crash rash & hanger rash is in need of repair. I wasn't able to obtain a pilot of the right porportions so I decided to try and make one myself. What better place for a scratch built pilot. A little pictorial evolution. Also a couple of pics of canopy #2 shaped from foam and the modified solder gun used to hollow it out.
Blue skies!
Rick
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Old 11-17-2008, 06:43 AM
  #22  
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A bit more progress this weekend. Got the cockpit/pilot/canopy constructed. Since the windows are flat panes, I used overhead projector foils and cut the windows from them. They are very clear. I also found that Krylon H2O primer coat appears to be a good undercoat. It goes on pretty thick and actually dries to a rather rough finish. But when block sanded & then finish sanded with some #240 paper, leaves a very smooth surface. It fills small imperfections real well. We'll find out if all the sanding was worth it when I go for the top coat in the next day or two. Happy building/flying!!

Rick
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Old 11-17-2008, 03:34 PM
  #23  
RickAvery
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Thanks Larry!
She's been quite a journey to get to this point. The detailing and research to find all of the insignias, roundels, & the stenceled signs is hampered on this plane because of so few made, and none preserved. The only significant piece remaining of the tooling, drawings, or any of the aircraft is the nose section of aircraft #6, which never actually flew. The pictures of these planes is very limited. I've spent hours on the net looking for pics I haven't seen before. There aren't many to be had. Happy building.
Rick
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Old 11-20-2008, 07:24 AM
  #24  
RickAvery
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Originally Posted by flypaper 2 View Post
Rick: I have half a dozen books on the Arrow and the best one for your purposes is simply called 'Arrow' by The Boston Mills Press. # ISBN 0-919822-35-5. It's about the construction from design to the destruction. Very detailed. Good book to have or you may be able to find it in a library.
Thanks Flypaper, I appreciate the Heads up. I'll check the library.

Here is some more progress on the Arrow. Got the white coat on and started to put on the red. I cut the windows for the navigator but haven't made the
panes yet. I was able to find the flags, roundels & some of the stenciled messages around the aircraft. The decals will go on last just before a final coat of Polycrylic semi-gloss. Cheers!
Rick
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Last edited by RickAvery; 11-20-2008 at 03:32 PM.
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Old 12-08-2008, 07:03 AM
  #25  
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Meet the Arrow! Here she is fresh out of the detailing booth.
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