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Ryan STA flying "wires" etc, etc, (mostly etc)

Old 01-02-2010, 06:31 PM
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capn chaos
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Default Ryan STA flying "wires" etc, etc, (mostly etc)

Somewhere back in the late 70's I ended up with Sig STA ryan, Maxey Hester design. For years it was my "therapy" and never lost the admiration for that model. All for another thread.
Enter Pd1 and his wonderful pocket rocket. Figured I would emulate the Ryan while trying to keep with the elegant simplicity of Pauls offering.
Trying to keep the geometry close to the same as reports are that this is a great flying 12-15 oz model suited for relatively small flying areas. Also a good program to experiment with the last 2000' of doculam I ordered before Christmas
Figured I would at least plan on adding flying "wires" in the future, so set the simple wing structure up to carry (and distribute) loads associated with the rigging. Tried to keep additional weight to a minimum. The only wood added were the doublers made of 3/32" balsa sandwiched between 1/64" ply. Wanted to get the loads ultimately out to the tips so the wing spars could distribute the compression back to the fuse and very little reliance on wing frame for any strength. I believe the weight added is a fraction of a gram with 99% being in the 1/2" x 5/8" doublers.
landing gear block is 1/8" divinicell foam sandwiched between 1/64" ply. Pics to follow couldn't seem to get them on this post

CC
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Old 01-03-2010, 10:29 PM
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Sky Sharkster
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Default Great Build!

Hi CC,
Nice workmanship on this build, the structure showing through the covering looks great. I'll be following this.
Ron
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Old 01-03-2010, 10:56 PM
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Wow CC! She's gonna be a real Gem!
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Old 01-03-2010, 11:42 PM
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subb
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Old 01-04-2010, 04:22 AM
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capn chaos
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Originally Posted by Sky Sharkster View Post
Hi CC,
Nice workmanship on this build, the structure showing through the covering looks great. I'll be following this.
Ron
Thanks!, I will upload a few more photos sometime tomorrow. Trying to keep this one fun and not get to hung up on a schedule. Not the fastest builder (continental drift comes to mind). Glad your build is coinciding, I needed a nudge to get moving on fuselage.
CC
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Old 01-04-2010, 11:15 PM
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Thanks Bird dog, and PA welcome aboard the chaos express
Was diagonally parked in a parallel universe for awhile but nowback to spread confusion.
Oh yeah, the thread...
Being spurred along by Ron on this one and promised some pics of fuselage progress. Last night late, I cut the wing saddle and realized after finishing the second side that I had cut it about 3/8" too deep so after a good night sleep and three cups of coffee, started the correction process. (When I first started work in a boat building company moons ago, the carpenter who was a furniture builder by trade, said "hey, dont worry about the mistakes, the sign of a good workman is knowing how to cover them upNot sure if I ever got to that level but certainly have had plenty of practice over the years)
Cut out the bad and inserted a new piece into fuse sides using slightly heavier balsa (convinced myself that the mistake was a good one). tried to fit as best possible but knew the 1/64" skin was going to cover it anyway.
CC
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Old 01-04-2010, 11:27 PM
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Now for the 1/64" laminate. Does it add weight..."you betcha" does it add strength..you be the judge. Its not going to be practical on Micro flyers but anything over 12ozs could benefit.
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Old 01-04-2010, 11:33 PM
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Saddle looks a lot stronger now!
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Old 01-05-2010, 12:00 AM
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Hi Captain, Your workmanship looks outstanding. I like the mods too.
The aft sheeting is a good idea, my Rocket came out nose heavy.
The sheeting should help there too.

Paul
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Old 01-05-2010, 12:26 AM
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Good job, CC. Looks good as usual. But I didnt understand;
which pictures have the doculam?
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Old 01-05-2010, 12:44 AM
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The Doculam is the "foggy windows" in post one.
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Old 01-05-2010, 12:54 AM
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Paul, Thanks for the feedback. I dont believe I will be as light but 13 ozs is looking pretty realistic. I may leave some of the wing clear to eliminate some weight there. Right now the wing weighs 3.08 ozs with ailerons and landing gear, gear blocks and aileron linkage in place (no servo), covered, not painted.
PA Thanks again. The doculam shows up (sort of) in post #1 in all but the first two wing pics. Tail in window, details of wing rigging etc or...the last four photos.
Bird Dog, I tried to convince myself it is stronger, you helped...thanks.
I have added up "givens" to date.
Wing 3.08ozs
Motor, collet adapter and spinner, motor mount and motor mount extension 1.599ozs
Tail .895 ozs (Paul, ouch....gotta be da paint & primer..not gonna be nose heavy this one)
Servo and servo horn with micro ball links .352 ozs
5.926 ozs
projected fuselage <2.5ozs
two five gram servos, linkage and reciever < 1.5 ozs
battery (not sure on this but <3.0 oz 3 s 900-1100 mah
Hopefull AUW <13ozs.
I hope I havent overlooked anything but chances are I did.
CC
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Old 01-05-2010, 01:17 AM
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Just a couple more pics and a thanks to Ron whose post Micro Fly Baby had some information that saved the day. Could not figure how to locate exact cutout area for lighting holes in rear fuse after the plywood skins were in place. Remembered his trick of holding the panel up to strong light. Got it marked and the cuts went great.
I also found a fairly clever way to draw plans, create a building board and work platform...
Cheap plywood panel usually sold at home depot as cut panels, 2'x2', 2'x4' etc. I think its birch veneer, clear grain and soft sub veneers. Holds push pins great, draw on it, cut on it and when its finished drill a hole and hang it on the wall. Layed the thrust line out paralell with dressed long edge of board and used it with a speed square (triangular carpenters sqare) to help draw the plans then with wax paper taped over it the plans were the building board. Have gotten so much help and good ideas on WF, just thought I would pass this one along...Thanks all.
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Old 01-05-2010, 01:23 AM
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Yes, Bird dog, foggy look is scuffed doculam which otherwise is crystal clear. I scuffed it prior to covering so that I wasn't prone to chafe thru at hard spots, frames, ribs, spars etc. It took about 30 seconds with a 3m pad to scuff wing panels. Cut oversize, tacked with iron at four corners on to a melamine shelving (no imperfections, piece of clean glass would work also) and then just scuffed away.

CC
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Old 01-05-2010, 02:08 AM
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Default Moving Along!

Hi CC,
Nice idea with the suspended weights, it's a good indicator of the bending strength. Is that ply 1/64"?
I use the backlight a lot, to see how far I've sanded, lining up sheeting, etc. Glad it's helpful!
Your build is coming along great, keep us posted!
Ron
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Old 01-05-2010, 02:21 AM
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Originally Posted by Sky Sharkster View Post
Hi CC,
Nice idea with the suspended weights, it's a good indicator of the bending strength. Is that ply 1/64"?
I use the backlight a lot, to see how far I've sanded, lining up sheeting, etc. Glad it's helpful!
Your build is coming along great, keep us posted!
Ron
Ron
Yes, 1/64" ply, I call it wingskin but I don't think its used much for that anymore. This build is borderline as far as its practicality goes but I do use it to laminate over PVC foam for bulkheads and other heavy structural pieces. In the "pocket rocket" thread I believe I heard of some failure where solid balsa tied into lighter rear fuse structure. With my landings, I preferred to add a little strenght/weight here. Typical of any cored material the strength squares as the thickness (of core material) doubles. The nice thing about the ply is it generally doesn't have a "weak" grain direction, well not to any great degree, so I feel free to whittle away as much as is practical.
CC
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Old 01-06-2010, 04:07 AM
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May be a day or so before I can get back to the build but thought I would post progress. The laminated fuselage weighed 1.85 ozs before lightning holes were cut. I try to cut about half the weight out and figure whats left will have plenty of strength. After cutouts, .895 ozs. Pretty much at target. This should be the bulk of the fuse weight with most everything else being balsa formers and wing mount blocks etc.

CC
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Old 01-07-2010, 11:41 PM
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Sort of a productive day or so. Managed to start rolling on fuselage formers, wing mount blocks, firewall, modified "junk drawer motor mount" to extend motor 2.5 inches out from . Pulled some "junk drawer ply servo mounts and set them into 3/32" balsa to receive the two 5 gram rudder/elevator servos. Thinks started to take shape and each piece became easier to figure as some unknowns fell into place. Received my 800 mah 3s battery from HURC around noon and through some pieces into respective positions to start narrowing in on CG, battery location, etc. My tailfeathers and ply sheeting on fuselage has moved the battery almost all the way forward. Was a good feeling seeing this balance right about the wingspar.Having dealt with this on the ARF Nitroplanes Tiger moth (thats where the junk drawer stuff came from) was already prepared for that. The battery will fit in compartment formed by motor extension but also can slide back a bit if necessary. I havent calculated cg yet but wing loading is going to be somewhere under 10 ozs/square foot so might just guess and toss it down a hill for a test glide or two. The forward half of the fuse deck will be removable from the cockpit forward so access to any of that area is going to be simple...well sort of simple
I'm still on target after all the heavy lifting for <2.5 ozs on fuselage which will keep all up weight between 12 and 13 ozs. Wing area is 250 sq in at last calc.
I'm getting a headache

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Old 01-07-2010, 11:57 PM
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Very cool. The servo mounts gave me an idea
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Old 01-08-2010, 12:06 AM
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PA. Glad you found it helpful. Not sure what they were supposed to be used for in the TM build but ended up with a nice light weight solution for the two 5 gram servos.

CC
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Old 01-08-2010, 11:08 PM
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Another day...nothin changes but the sandpaper
Closing in on that magic 2.5 ozs and now have to look hard for the weight saving. Not too many glitches in the system today. With fuse, hatch, and framing in place, Placed on scales and 2.385 ozs. Still need to finish turtle deck, and frame for vertical stabilizer receiver notch. Then theres the signature "headrest" and cowl. I,ll go back over the fuse sides with file and sandpaper, a small dremel bit and try to loose some weight. I know the area over the wing saddle is overbuilt for a 12-13oz bird. Will also shave some of the motor mount bracket.
I'm thinking I will make the cowl out of foam and then finish with .6oz glass. Ive had some luck with this on my ME 109 scratch.
CC
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Old 01-08-2010, 11:40 PM
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Specs
WS 37"
Length 25 1/2"
Chord length 7"
Chord depth 1"
Motor 2712-17 http://www.headsuprc.com/servlet/the...tor/Categories
Battery 800 mah 3s TheGWS EP 8040 prop produces 20 ounces of thrust at 11.5 amps with a pitch speed of 41 mph. Yep, 20 ounces of thrust from this little motor! But you will likely fry the motor if you run at wide open throttle for very long. Tempting but......

The
GWS EP 7035 prop produces about 15 ounces of thrust at 7.5 amps with a pitch speed of 46 mph. Excellent prop for this motor. Likely will start out with this prop
.

Hobby Lobby Pro 10 amp (12 burst) 7gram ESC
Two 5 gram servos TP50 rudder and elevator
1 HEX900 Aileron servo with torque rods to ailerons.

Do I need a UBEC with this or are the servo loads so minimal (I know they're not the most efficient servos but I have them)
Spectrum 6100 e sitting on shelf(not sure about this one...may go with AR500 ??
Anything way out of whack here..
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Old 01-08-2010, 11:46 PM
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Forgot to add the AUW...Target 13 ozs

CC
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Old 01-09-2010, 12:12 AM
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Amazing! Lookin' great!
I'm not really confident in offering up any power system theories, but is sounds good. I would suggest working the servos a bit and checking the ESC for heat. Couldn't hurt.

VERY nice build going here.
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Old 01-09-2010, 12:36 AM
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Thanks Bird Dog... just posted an open invitation for comments in general electric discussion but I think your'e right...
CC
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